AFED stickers

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madashell's picture
madashell
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Oct 21 2007 19:34
Devrim wrote:
You are of course right, I am not claiming it is a majority, and I didn't mean it to come across like that. There are anarchists who argue against this as clearly as we do.

Fair enough, but the way you phrased it originally did look a lot like it was aimed at anarchists in general to me. Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick.

Anyway, I think that this "vote to keep the BNP out" thing comes from people seeing fascism as more of a threat than the Labour party, who are currently in power. Personally, I think that's a crock of shit. At the moment, the BNP are no real threat at all.

However, it is simply not reasonable or practical to expect that people enter into any kind of dialogue with ideologically comitted fascists. They want to crush us (even if they don't have the resources to actually do it) and they're more than willing to employ violence in the pursuit of that aim. You try to have a reasoned discussion about class politics with somebody who's right in your face, threatening to kick the shit out of you.

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To me though it says something about either a weakness in theory, or organisation when we hear these calls coming the anarchist organisations.

It isn't coming from any anarchist organisation though.

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Devrim
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Oct 21 2007 19:43
Quote:
However, it is simply not reasonable or practical to expect that people enter into any kind of dialogue with ideologically comitted fascists. They want to crush us (even if they don't have the resources to actually do it) and they're more than willing to employ violence in the pursuit of that aim. You try to have a reasoned discussion about class politics with somebody who's right in your face, threatening to kick the shit out of you.

I am not suggesting that people stop, and try to argue politics within the middle of a fight. I am just saying that it is neccesary to argue with workers for communist politics, even if they are fascists. Of course we live in a country where the largest fascist party got 5,000,000 votes in the last election. Are we supposed to not argue with workers who voted for this party with a degree of ideological commitment.

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It isn't coming from any anarchist organisation though.

No, you are right. That would be far worse. It doesn't mean when these calls come from within anarchist organisations that there is no problem though.

Devrim

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madashell
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Oct 21 2007 20:22
Devrim wrote:
I am not suggesting that people stop, and try to argue politics within the middle of a fight. I am just saying that it is neccesary to argue with workers for communist politics, even if they are fascists. Of course we live in a country where the largest fascist party got 5,000,000 votes in the last election. Are we supposed to not argue with workers who voted for this party with a degree of ideological commitment.

It's difficult for me to comment here, because I know very little about Turkey (almost nothing, in fact), but it's somewhat different when you have a fascist party with that kind of mass appeal. I'm thinking more in terms of the UK, where you have a very small hardcore of actual fascists, who are not the slightest bit interested in hearing anything I have to say. It's pretty rare that I encounter fascists at all, they barely exist, where I live, but the few times I have bumped into them, there wasn't really much scope for discussing politics.

redandblack17
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Oct 21 2007 20:37

im using photoshop really, mmm i dunno really

little_brother's picture
little_brother
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Oct 21 2007 20:45
Devrim wrote:
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As far as I am concerned, anarchist activity should be about getting involved in countering fascists whenever they are organising

Why?
Devrim

They directly appeal to the working class with their race hatred and nationalism so we must counter their ideologies and keep them weak. Doing this is part of building internationalism in our communities.

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little_brother
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Oct 21 2007 20:46
redandblack17 wrote:
im using photoshop really, mmm i dunno really

Try MS Paint. works for me.

redandblack17
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Oct 21 2007 21:14

RIGHT A FEW NEW ONES, BETTER THAN THE OLD!!

OK SO I KNOW THE NO ID ONE IS WEAK.

and because its my shit luck it seems they've become sum how pixellated sad

madashell's picture
madashell
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Oct 21 2007 21:35

It's because they're .jpgs. I think you want to stick to .bmp if you want to keep the original quality.

Anarchia's picture
Anarchia
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Oct 21 2007 21:37

2nd one is pretty.

Devrim's picture
Devrim
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Oct 22 2007 05:28
little_brother wrote:
Devrim wrote:
Quote:
As far as I am concerned, anarchist activity should be about getting involved in countering fascists whenever they are organising

Why?
Devrim

They directly appeal to the working class with their race hatred and nationalism so we must counter their ideologies and keep them weak. Doing this is part of building internationalism in our communities.

And other bourgeois parties don't? I presume you are not old enough to remember "If you want a black for a neighbour..." Both the Labour Party, and the Conservative Party are responsible for anti-working class, and anti-immigrant actions that the BNP could only fantasise about.

Devrim

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Devrim
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Oct 22 2007 05:38
madashell wrote:
It's difficult for me to comment here, because I know very little about Turkey (almost nothing, in fact), but it's somewhat different when you have a fascist party with that kind of mass appeal. I'm thinking more in terms of the UK, where you have a very small hardcore of actual fascists, who are not the slightest bit interested in hearing anything I have to say. It's pretty rare that I encounter fascists at all, they barely exist, where I live, but the few times I have bumped into them, there wasn't really much scope for discussing politics.

Yes, you are right. It is a very different situation. I remember about ten years ago here, there was a huge fascist demonstration (millions of people) what do you do about things like that, organise a counter demo? It also ties in with the struggle/war between the left, and the fascists leading up to the 1980 coup. Thirty people were being killed every day in İstanbul alone. To a certain extent it became gang warfare with the left having virtually no connection to the working class at all.

If the BNP is growing rapidly as people seem to think, then maybe a rethink is necessary.

Devrim

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Tacks
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Oct 22 2007 14:45
Tacks wrote:
redandblack17 wrote:
I've done a few sticker ideas, what do you think?

Its wicked you're doing designs (what program do you use btw?) but i'm still kinda puzzled - if you are that enthusiastic about the AF, why don't you get involved full stop?

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little_brother
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Oct 22 2007 18:12
Devrim wrote:
little_brother wrote:
Devrim wrote:
Quote:
As far as I am concerned, anarchist activity should be about getting involved in countering fascists whenever they are organising

Why?
Devrim

They directly appeal to the working class with their race hatred and nationalism so we must counter their ideologies and keep them weak. Doing this is part of building internationalism in our communities.

And other bourgeois parties don't? I presume you are not old enough to remember "If you want a black for a neighbour..." Both the Labour Party, and the Conservative Party are responsible for anti-working class, and anti-immigrant actions that the BNP could only fantasise about.

Devrim

OK I can see where this is going. But you don't have to go back any further than 2007. Frank Fields Labour MP in Merseyside is playing the anti-immigrant card bigtime (well known for his 1990s vitriol against unemployed as well). Anti-immigration rhetoric (and policy) is rife in the mainstream parties with their eyes on their seats. On the otherhand the business viewpoint 'immigrants are good for UK plc' is also prevalent within the major parties which is not the case for the BNP whose leadership is ideologically racist. Of course it is important to oppose anti-working class anti-immigration policies which are inherent in the introduction of ID cards and enhanced Border controls by both Labour and Tories (much of this coming though as part of EU and international agreements). No surprise then that opposing these is a priority amongst many AF members, through involvement with Defy-ID and No Borders, and we've written a great deal about that in recent years e.g. http://www.afed.org.uk/ace/anon.html#links
more than about BNP I'd say. This said I maintain it's important to make a point of opposing ideologically racist/fascist organisations who are trying to achieve their aims through the ballot box or however, and this opposition needs come from the collective strength of working class communities.

Tacks's picture
Tacks
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Oct 22 2007 19:17

just to clarify however - AF are committed to Dfy ID as an org, but we are not similarly committed to no borders as of yet.

Tacks's picture
Tacks
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Oct 22 2007 19:50

new design!!!

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Tacks
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Oct 22 2007 19:51

David UK
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Oct 24 2007 11:39

I can't see ur design Tacks, cos alot of images don't show on my work computer.

I think we should parody current Army propaganda. It's clean, clear and fucking cool. Just change "your local infrantry regiment is recruiting" to something more appropriate.

I made this in 2 miniutes in Paint, at work, as a template for what I mean. Obviously it can be done better. And should be in Black vinyl... grin

Tacks's picture
Tacks
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Oct 24 2007 14:04

it's invisible is what it is cmrd.

try again.

madashell's picture
madashell
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Oct 24 2007 15:11

It shows up if you c+p the image url into your browser. Didn't one local group do some pretty good parodies of the "Be the best" stuff?

http://dl.che-lives.com/uploads/post-14-1193227789.gif

Tacks's picture
Tacks
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Oct 24 2007 15:58

i don't even get an image url tho.

David UK
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Oct 24 2007 17:42

David UK
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Oct 24 2007 17:48

Now I did these on paint at work so they're ideas for stickers, not designs. Maybe someone who is better with computers can make them into something...

and a southpark one.

Tacks's picture
Tacks
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Oct 29 2007 03:31

why is your ethnic caricature smoking a blim you cheap nazi?

who the fuck is that in the back row on the left justin timberlake?!

David UK
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Oct 29 2007 18:35

Yes it is justin timberlake. And yes I am trying to get the political ideas of Nazism into afed prop.

Tacks's picture
Tacks
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Oct 29 2007 18:48

Ruins?!

THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA