Curiosity around Anarchism in general.

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ComradeAppleton's picture
ComradeAppleton
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Aug 22 2012 16:19
jolasmo wrote:
Comrade Appleton is a fairly new poster whose beliefs are pretty different to most other posters here (this is a communist forum and he is an anti-communist). Hence the rather lengthy debate.

I'm not anti-communist, I'm just not a communist. There is a big difference between those two stances. I have nothing against communism, unless it's imposed by force. In fact this is my attitude toward any ideology, political arrangement, economic system, etc.

NannerNannerNan...
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Aug 22 2012 16:28
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im comrade appleton and heres my views

So the capitalist stealing the labor of the worker through the state monopoly on violence is good, noble work and anarchism at its most fufilled; the proletariat organizing society morally, communistically wrong because "but what about me?"

Just because you're an antisocial, bourgeoise individualist and an elitist doesn't mean everyone else should think that way. Don't go on about how you're the "true" anarchist because you come from an utterly confused and reactionary standpoint. I'd like to hear about how your rank hatred of community, fraternity and humanity is ethical.

All of your childish appealing to liberalism and profane individualism mirrors that of all elitists trying to protect their wealth and privilege, fearing the people will recognize the immorality of inequality and plutocracy and organize society on the basis of want and need - not crassness, individualism and greed or some econ-babble about utility of reward or whatever.

Why don't you just get the frog out and go back to Ludwig Von Mises, where a bunch of crude scum will agree with your backward, badly thought-out and evil opinions.

You hate democracy because it gives power to the powerless. Go back to 'bating off to Locke or Stirner. You just want to make sure the "rabble" knows their place, and we anarchists disagree.

Your "ethics" are the ethics of the elite.

JoeMaguire's picture
JoeMaguire
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Aug 22 2012 17:52

Yeah CA, I think you fail to realise that anarchist communists hold a critique of democracy, not to dissimilar from your own (minus the contempt towards collectivisation) and that we're not exactly pushing a dictatorship of the majority.

We function from a means-to-an-ends based philosophy and free association is hard-wired into our DNA.

Emma Goldman wrote:
Man’s true liberation, individual and collective, lies in his emancipation from authority and from the belief in it. All human evolution has been a struggle in that direction and for that object. It is not invention and mechanics which constitute development. The ability to travel at the rate of 100 miles an hour is no evidence of being civilized. True civilization is to be measured by the individual, the unit of all social life; by his individuality and the extent to which it is free to have its being to grow and expand unhindered by invasive and coercive authority.

Socially speaking, the criterion of civilization and culture is the degree of liberty and economic opportunity which the individual enjoys; of social and international unity and co-operation unrestricted by man-made laws and other artificial obstacles; by the absence of privileged castes and by the reality of liberty and human dignity; in short, by the true emancipation of the individual

.

Agent of the Fifth International's picture
Agent of the Fi...
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Aug 22 2012 18:31

Come out of the closet ComradeAppleton. We know your an anarcho-capitalist, you can barely hide it. You want to rewind the clock backward and start capitalism from the beginning, but this time, you want to put yourself in front of the line. And so when you rise to power like a Rockefeller or Ford, you can exploit and degrade the mass of people. Your nothing but a power hungry, self-aggrandizing individual. How dare you call yourself an anarchist!

the croydonian anarchist's picture
the croydonian ...
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Aug 22 2012 18:49

Comrade Appleton, your no comrade of ours.

ComradeAppleton's picture
ComradeAppleton
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Aug 23 2012 10:08
NannerNannerNannerNannerNanner wrote:
Just because you're an antisocial, bourgeoise individualist and an elitist doesn't mean everyone else should think that way. Don't go on about how you're the "true" anarchist because you come from an utterly confused and reactionary standpoint. I'd like to hear about how your rank hatred of community, fraternity and humanity is ethical.

Again, all you do is throw out nasty stereotypes - there is no logic to anything you write. You just call me names and think it's an argument. It is needless to say that I do not hate anyone and I do not oppose any kind of social organization. This kind of demagoguery is identical to that seen in the distorted right-wing stereotypes of leftists. It’s pure nonsense and misrepresentation of all my views.

JoeMaguire wrote:
We function from a means-to-an-ends based philosophy and free association is hard-wired into our DNA.

I support all free association, what I don't understand is why everyone here thinks I hate association or hate people or hate cooperation just because I'm not a communist. Is communism the only type of free association? I beg to differ...

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Tim Finnegan
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Aug 23 2012 21:19
ComradeAppleton wrote:
[All people are seperate, so there is always 'us' and 'they', 'me' and 'you'. There is no getting away from reality, however much you might want to.

Nah. Conciousness is basically fuzzy, a network of cognitive processes spread across three dimensions rather than the indivisible cogito you seem to be offering here, and it's not really possible to draw a stark line between were one cluster of processes (or "mind") ends and another begins. What gives the appearance of this Cartesian individuality is the looseness of integration between body-subjects, and even that's not nearly as loose as we think it is.

Schwarz's picture
Schwarz
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Aug 23 2012 21:56
ComradeAppleton wrote:
Anarchy is about lifting all artificial restrictions of human behavior and seeing what happens!

Do you include markets, contracts, exchange value, or wage labor in the list of 'artificial restrictions of human behavior'?

Or do you consider those things to be natural? Or eternal? Or not restrictions on behavior?

ComradeAppleton's picture
ComradeAppleton
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Aug 24 2012 09:16
Schwarz wrote:
Do you include markets, contracts, exchange value, or wage labor in the list of 'artificial restrictions of human behavior'?

Markets, contracts, wage labor, or exchanges in general can't be restrictions by definition because they are not compulsory. They only involve the people who want to be involved in them, not anyone else. An artificial restriction is something imposed on you by some other person. Of course being an anarchist means you practice your own morality - you don't have to follow other people's contracts, believe in anyone's rights, or do anything other people tell you. You decide for yourself what you value and what you want.

Emile Armand wrote:
We have seen that anarchism is the philosophy of antiauthoritarianism. Anarchist individualism is, as such, a practical conception of this philosophy, and it entreats every individual to seek out and discover in practice, in everyday life, his or her own theory.

This means that others may not force you into contracts or societies of any kind: primitivistic, feudal, capitalistic, socialistic, communistic, statist, or any other.

I am personally a believer is small communities run along the lines of Josiah Warren's vision and I don't think by living my own life the way I want to live it (alongside like-minded people) I am placing restrictions on anyone else.