Religion

Yeah, and on the few occasions when the inmates got the upper hand, all these scum were wiped out. They weren't following the teachings of Lord Jesus, tch, tch!

Sorry to have to break it to you, but this is fucking mental.

LSD is not a breakfast cereal.

I'd like to hear you say that to the females in Iran who got executed because they were raped, while the person who did it only gets 50 lashes. I don't know the ins and outs of the bible (why would i want to?) but in practice, it is about as desirable as maoism. These religious texts, have been the justification for racism, sexism, class inequality, declaring bloody wars on other countries in the interest of capital, the rejection of self knowledge, and the repression of any artistic or sexual expression which maybe considered "sinful", unless its a catholic priest sexually abusing children. You might say that this is some bad misinterpretation of the holy book. Whatever the case, I do not think there'll be any good interpretation. How the hell could i base my thoughts on what some mushroom taking nutters wrote thousands of years ago? And have little chance of being able to change them? I guess it can be argued that some political ideologies are like that, and some especially on the left are in danger of falling into that trap, they fail to change when capitalism has changed, but that is another dicussion entirely, and besides which, i must catch the bus. Its all a little quick that last bit, but i hope people get what i am saying here.

You owe me a new keyboard, I just spat coffee all over this one

How can anyone really expect to understand the holocaust? I mean my great uncle was killed in a death camp and the stories that i've heard from that time are so hurendous i would never repeat them to anyone.
Whats more this type of thing keeps happening, most recently (that i am aware of) in Darfur. And of course during ww2 their was the case of Von Stauffenberg, the german general and one of Hitlers closest men, who was so shocked when he discovered what was happening to the jews that he decided to plant a bomb in Hitlers office and gathered the resistance, but the effort failed because of an oak table! And Von Stauffenberg was killed by fireing squad- would history have been so much worse if they'd succeded? Surely the best thing that could possible have happened would have been for the tyrant to have been brought down by revolution? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_20_Plot I guess maybe the nation of isreal would not have been reunited and after over 1000 years it takes something bloody big to do that, but whatever came out if it that was even remotely possitive - what a cost!

There are quite a few people, Palestinians and others (e.g. myself), who would contest even that remote positivity, you know.

That's strange, coming from one who manages to evoke such antagonism in others.

I'm against banning people in general, unless they really make it very hard to have good discussions, or if they happen to hail from Great Spamalot. These individuals don't fall into those criteria. Why do you want to ban them, though?

Libertarian communism may be about politics, but online forums, indeed, any social context, online or offline, has a lot to do with etiquette.

How do you measure success at flaming?

Last Men? Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Well, I have to make myself seem superior somehow. Would you rather I used Hebrew or Arabic? מה זה ("ma ze") or شو هذا ("shu hada")? Or does using a Semitic tongue make me even poofier?

Is Revol un salaud? Or perhaps un trou de cul? or mebbe ein scheisskopf?

How about erhalten Sie unten auf Ihren Knien und küssen Sie meinen Arsch für Verzeihen

-not that i actually mean that

Look, this has reduced itself to childish nonsense.

It seems to me that:

1. Alot of people in the world are religious. Combined, those religous people have the potential to wield alot of power.

2. By making no comment regarding afed's policy regarding religion, support from radical religous organisations (of which there are many) remains a possibility

3. By categorically stating that religion is the enemy of afed, afed loses a lot of potential support, and gains a alot of potential enemies, ridicule, etc. etc..

Therefore afed has little to lose and alot to gain by making no comment regarding religious matters. Whether God exists or not is completely irrelevant, but the fact is that organisations such as the Jesuits are powerful, rich, long reaching, and are involved with many similar struggles as afed (to give one example of a potential beneficiary afed can lose).

PS If you guys are going to argue about God, you'd get a lot further if you did so in a mature and progressive way IMO.

Which radical religious organizations are you referring to? Name "many" that aren't fundamentalist, subscribing to such "radical" ideas as women staying at home, serving their husbands, and having as many babies as possible. Oh, I'm well aware of Rabbis for Human Rights, for example, but they are a very rare exception - most "radical" religious organizations are more akin to Hezbollah or Kach.

Yeah, but I mean, why stop there? I'm sure that if AFed lay off its whole class-struggle bollocks it could hook up with the Tories, who are also rich and long-reaching, and whose members also breath oxygen, just like class-struggle anarchists!

Really looking forward to getting those funds from the Jesuits, as soon as we drop "the religion clause".
Where do these weirdos come from????

When you start messing with peoples core beliefs you're asking for trouble. It also begs the question- how exactly do you intend to prevent people forming religous groups? Start a propaganda campain against them 'they rape babies!' , and then put them in prison, or line them up and shoot them? - these have always been the traditional methods!?

At last some common sense on this thread.

No. We create a society based on equality, fairness and decency. Then their stupid ideas can't fuck everything up for everyone else.

And you are going to stop them meeting up by doing ... what exactly?
Bearing in mind that their are millions of religious people nationally and billions internationally

You're fucking mental, do you realise that?

Nobody. Said. Anything. About. Stopping. Relgious. People. Meeting. Up.

Plus if they're all in one place already, it'll save rounding them up.

I didn't meen meeting up as in 'just getting together', i meant forming groups and getting ideas- sometimes good sometimes bad. You know, organised religion. Yeah i don't agree with everything that people come up with in such settings, but it's inevitable, the koran for example, gives strict instructions, i don't like them, i don't agree with them, but however much i hate doctrine etc. i don't see how anyone can stop it without infringing on peoples rights even more so than the average religous group?

Yes, but that's because you're a fucking loon who can't understand the difference between saying you're opposed to something and wanting to round everybody up who does it and shoot them.

Thanks, it seems it's okay for atheist to say that religion has been used to justify rape, murder, paedophilia or whatever - thats not 'mental'. All i asked was what was supposed to happen, wether that means 'we don't like it, but they have right', or what? Is that not a valid question?

So have "non-religious" ideologies.

Regardless, this discussion is going nowhere, mostly because _Arwen_ isn't really talking to anyone on this thread.

Liberalism? Fascism?

Because they go to people's core beliefs, of course. We should never contest people's core beliefs. I'm with you on this one, revol, but, mind you, it's not the supernatural nonsense that bothers me, it's the practical implications.

You may be right, but i don't really know what to say to anyone. I just don't think that religion by definition or more specifically christianity does support things such as femail oppression and persecution from my own experiences, but it's hard for me to explain that without sounding like a bible-waving maniak. I think it's important to contest ideas and beliefs, so i suppose i shouldn't really mind accusations like that, if people are willing to think about things in an open minded way