Religion

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Tojiah
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Mar 8 2007 21:41
_Arwen_ wrote:
tojiah wrote:
Regardless, this discussion is going nowhere, mostly because _Arwen_ isn't really talking to anyone on this thread.

You may be right, but i don't really know what to say to anyone. I just don't think that religion by definition or more specifically christianity does support things such as femail oppression and persecution from my own experiences, but it's hard for me to explain that without sounding like a bible-waving maniak. I think it's important to contest ideas and beliefs, so i suppose i shouldn't really mind accusations like that, if people are willing to think about things in an open minded way

You can start by addressing specific messages to specific people, rather than what you're doing, which is arguing against some general positions that no-one here has actually taken up. And it's "bible-thumping" not "waving." wink

knightrose
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Mar 9 2007 18:46

_Arwen_
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Mar 10 2007 17:39
tojiah wrote:
You can start by addressing specific messages to specific people, rather than what you're doing, which is arguing against some general positions that no-one here has actually taken up. And it's "bible-thumping" not "waving." ;-)

okay,

revol68 wrote:
Quote:
Thanks, it seems it's okay for atheist to say that religion has been used to justify rape, murder, paedophilia or whatever - thats not 'mental'

but it clearly has!

I suppose this agrument comes down to stuff like the crusades and the stuff in the middle east, well, their is nothing in the teachings of jesus to promote such things, really they don't in fact the catholic church has officially appologised. It's also worth mentioning that non-religous groups are not exactly innocent of that sort of thing either, the chinese cultural revolution resulted in countless deaths and persecution -intelectuals were litrally buried alive and the red army raped millions of woman and children. It would be wrong to say communism etc are synonamous with rape and murder likewise for 'religion'

knightrose
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Mar 11 2007 09:56

For me, the issue isn't really whether there's a god or not. It's about the power structures of religions and the way that religions cosy up to the state.
I'm not that bothered whether someone's got an invisible friend they believe in. I am bothered when they think that that invisible friend tells them what to think and how to act. I'm really bothered when they think that human thoughts and behaviour are pre-determined by some supernatural being.
I'm not an atheist. I'm a materialist. In my opinion there's a huge difference. An atheist defines themselves in opposition to a set of ideas. A materialist has a view f how ideas originate and how social change can come about. The issue of gods is not relevant and doen't need to come into the discussion. The question of institutions and their rleationship to the dominant mode of class society does. Hence the clause in our Aims and Principles.