Donald Trump and his people – united in the pursuit of happiness

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RC
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Jul 28 2017 01:32
Donald Trump and his people – united in the pursuit of happiness

Donald Trump and his people – united in the pursuit of happiness

What does Donald Trump mean when he speaks of “the people”?
Why does Trump, as well as a great number of Americans, believe that he, as a billionaire, is the great champion and hope of American factory workers?
Why does Trump, the highest office-holder in the USA, denounce its offices and institutions as an “establishment” and fight tenaciously against many of them?
What is the mission that Trump pursues for his people and his nation?

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jondwhite
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Jul 28 2017 06:29

Because the last time rulers said they're going to rule in the interests of the ruling class - was before workers won through class struggle the ability to vote and elect their rulers. Ever since then, winning candidates have made promises to the working class.

RC
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Aug 3 2017 13:35

jondwhite,

You want to see Trump as a master manipulator and his supporters as his dupes, and Trump as just another ruling class politician making "promises" to the workers. But why do ordinary working class people see "jobs jobs jobs" and "make America great again" as promises and not as threats? Why not critically analyze the wrong thinking that unites the ruled with the ruler instead of dismissing this as only possible because of lies and/or gullibility?

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Rommon
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Aug 7 2017 07:47

I honestly don't think he knows what he means almost 100% of the time. Any attempt to try and make some sort of sense of what he does or says will end up in failure.

If you want to see who are making the actual policies that matter, look at who's running the treasury Department and defence Department.

RC
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Aug 9 2017 13:36

Rommon,
Trump is pretty transparent and not as hard to figure out as you think! As you must know, the president appoints the Secretaries of the Treasury and Defense and they serve at his behest, not vice versa.
If you think critique of Trump's agenda for the USA and the world is impossible and irrelevant, then I guess you really are stuck with miracles ...

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Rommon
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Aug 9 2017 14:05

I think he's transparent in the fact that he is just an insecure little man-child, who is quite dumb, I think if you look at him primarily as that he makes Complete sense.

I think the People in charge (Goldman Sachs type People) are still running Things, and making sure he's surrounded by People who have those interests first.

RC
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Aug 10 2017 13:43

Rommon,

It is undeniable that Trump is vain, bullying, thin-skinned, and a complete moron, as you and almost everyone else would agree. But why not go beyond psychology and ask: how does this go with his politics? Don't the changes that Trump seeks require something little his type of personality? Hardly anybody in the public realm wants to take Trump seriously as a a political leader – which is what he is. Instead they say he is a degrading the political culture, “not my president,” etc. It makes you wonder: what do they have against his program?

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Rommon
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Aug 11 2017 09:17

The thing is, I don't think he has a program; I bet you that anything that actually leaves his desk With a signature is more or less going to be standard neo-liberalism/militarism, nothing New ... the only difference is now it's going be done With twitter storms, hissy fits and extra damage done by the equivalent of a 2 year old With a sugar high in a China store.

Technically he is a political leader, but he is so manipulatable and so weak in his esteem, that I would argue that he's almost inconsequential when it comes to actual laws being passed; the most he's able to do is perhaps a few dumb executive orders, or Public statements and so on, which will cause damage no doubt; but the way you would predict those is not based on any ideology, the way I'd predict those is just by watching this guys ego and threats to his ego.

The way I'd predict actual policy and legislation is the way one always predicts it ... what does Wallstreet/Silicon Valley/Oil/the military intustrial complex want ... and that's what you're going to get.

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jef costello
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Aug 11 2017 16:05

Trump is someone who is used to breezing into meetings barking commands, making a few 'jokes' and getting a laugh and then leaving the details to othersS. He is probably largely unaware that most of the business is handled by other people who are fully aware that he loses interest quickly enough that bad decisions can just be ignored.

RC
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Aug 12 2017 00:16

Rommon,

I would not make predictions. The success of Trump’s program will be the outcome of his power struggle with the “establishment,” as he repeatedly announces. It’s a struggle because he is trying to change the direction that the USA has followed for 75 years. Right now, he looks weak to you because he is not having much success, but it is still too early to say what will happen.

Its strange that you describe his policies as “nothing new” and the “standard neo-liberalism/militarism” – when neither "Wall Street" nor "Silicon Valley" are calling for punishments of American companies that open workplaces in foreign countries or for massive cut-backs in immigration. Nor is the “military industrial complex” happy about Trump calling into question the usefulness of America’s military alliances.

On a more basic level, your difficulty would seem to be that you view the state as the instrument of private interests, rather than the national interest itself (which includes the interest of hard working Americans in "jobs jobs jobs"). So you dismiss the question: why was half the American electorate, including a good many working class people, convinced by Trump’s diagnosis that the USA is in a major crisis and put their trust in his cure by making him their president?

At best, your criticism just seeks to reverse this trust – Trump is not strong, but weak; he is not incorruptible, but “manipulatable”; etc. I would rather ask: where does this trust (and mistrust) come from? What is an idiot like Trump an answer to?

zugzwang
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Aug 12 2017 07:26
RC wrote:
jondwhite,

You want to see Trump as a master manipulator and his supporters as his dupes, and Trump as just another ruling class politician making "promises" to the workers. But why do ordinary working class people see "jobs jobs jobs" and "make America great again" as promises and not as threats? Why not critically analyze the wrong thinking that unites the ruled with the ruler instead of dismissing this as only possible because of lies and/or gullibility?

It's been well-discussed why Trump appeals to so many. They don't see him as the manipulator and opportunist that he is because of disillusionment with the "establishment" with whom they were seeing no improvements. Coupled with that is the usual bombardment of messages that migrants/refugees are the source of their economic problems instead of corporations and the rich, who are seen as the "job creators" and are therefore beyond criticism. It is an irony though that so many see Trump as "anti-establishment" when he has one of the the richest cabinets in US history, and filled with all the "swamp creatures," Wall Street bankers and oil executives, he campaigned to get rid of. I don't think there is a better representation of money in politics or corruption than having one of the richest cabinets and being the first billionaire president.

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Rommon
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Aug 14 2017 09:52
RC wrote:
I would not make predictions. The success of Trump’s program will be the outcome of his power struggle with the “establishment,” as he repeatedly announces. It’s a struggle because he is trying to change the direction that the USA has followed for 75 years. Right now, he looks weak to you because he is not having much success, but it is still too early to say what will happen.

Trump doesn't have a program, that's my point, Steve Bannon has a program (fascism), Steve Mnuchin has a program (Neo-Liberalism), but Trump's program is basically "I don't have small hands, I'm Rich, look at me".

Here's what will have success, and I'm predicting it now: Anything that benefits wallstreet and the military-industrial complex.

Quote:
Its strange that you describe his policies as “nothing new” and the “standard neo-liberalism/militarism” – when neither "Wall Street" nor "Silicon Valley" are calling for punishments of American companies that open workplaces in foreign countries or for massive cut-backs in immigration. Nor is the “military industrial complex” happy about Trump calling into question the usefulness of America’s military alliances.

Not gonna happen, no companies are going be punished (at least systematically, he might do one or two just for show), and immigration won't change, he'll just make life harder for immigrants (and save cost for the employers). Trump isn't going to touch NATO either.

Look whose in charge of the deparments and who has the Money and you'll see which policies will go through.

Quote:
On a more basic level, your difficulty would seem to be that you view the state as the instrument of private interests, rather than the national interest itself (which includes the interest of hard working Americans in "jobs jobs jobs"). So you dismiss the question: why was half the American electorate, including a good many working class people, convinced by Trump’s diagnosis that the USA is in a major crisis and put their trust in his cure by making him their president?

"jobs, jobs, jobs" is just talk ... all politicians do that, they campain on national interests, even working class interests, and govern for private monied interests. This is completely typical, Obama did the same thing.

I don't think working class People were convinced by Trump's diagnosis, I think they just realized they had a better shot than they had With Clinton, most of them probably thought of Trump as a human Molotov coctail. I mean at this point ANYTHING is better than the establishment.

But in the end you see who is in his administration and what policies are actually passing and you realize ... it's the same old private interests running Things .... doesn't matter what comes out of his dumb little mouth.

Quote:
At best, your criticism just seeks to reverse this trust – Trump is not strong, but weak; he is not incorruptible, but “manipulatable”; etc. I would rather ask: where does this trust (and mistrust) come from? What is an idiot like Trump an answer to?

I think it's tribal ... look how many leftists (not radicals) in the U.S. stuck by Obama dispite his obvious neo-liberalism and militarism ... they just stuck With him because he was THEIR guy and because they didn't like the OTHER guys.

It's theatre.

My criticism seeks to find out what is really happening, to be honest politics will almost always follow the Money, it's been the pattern over and over again, it's time to drop politics and change Things on the ground in my opinion.