Manchester CSF Meeting Wed 22 Sept.

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Spikymike
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Sep 3 2010 13:35
Manchester CSF Meeting Wed 22 Sept.

The next meeting of the Manchester Class Struggle Forum will be:

at 7pm in the Friends Meeting House, Central Manchester on Wednesday the 22nd of September

on the subject of ' The Significance of the 1984/85 British Coalminers Strike'

Open Discussion. All Welcome.

Android
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Sep 10 2010 00:14

The suggested reading by Spikeymike (who will be giving the lead off talk) is:

1926-1985: So Near - So Far - a selective history of the British miners

Wildcat/CBG published material: Analysis During the Strike and Balance Sheet of the Strike

Relevant selections from 'Ghost Dancers' by Dave Douglas and Spikeymike's review:Pit Sense - or No Sense?

Outside & Against the Unions - Wildcat

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Kronstadt_Kid
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Sep 10 2010 15:05

I'm looking forward to this.

I'll advertise it on facebook and on the blog. xx

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Alf
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Sep 13 2010 09:05

This is a good choice of discussion given the number of key questions posed by the miners' strike. Hope it can be written up and summarised.

We have published a short article on why we think the Manchester class struggle forum has been a positive step forward:

http://en.internationalism.org/wr/337/manchester-class-struggle-forum

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Kronstadt_Kid
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Sep 13 2010 23:50

Quality.

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Kronstadt_Kid
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Sep 15 2010 16:23

Doing the blog and facebook advert now, using what I learnt from Wildcat about democracy, I am unilaterally deciding to add the following video to the resource list - Mark Fischer (CPGB) and Dave Douglass (NUM) discuss the lessons of the Great Miners' Strike of 1984-5 at Communist University 2009 in South London.

Samotnaf
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Sep 16 2010 11:29

Am curious about this (I put together 'So Near, So Far...'), but can't come: how much will be available online? Still reading 'Ghost Dancers' - lots of interesting anecdotes, but he's all over the place (and disingenuous at the very least) because, as a representative he needs to be all things to all men/women. Should add 'Jenny's Tale' to the list.

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Kronstadt_Kid
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Sep 16 2010 12:14

Thanks Samontnadf.

Up until now I have been recording all discussion onto my laptop using the 'Garage Band' application. However, that is where they have stayed until this day due to my limited computer skills.

I could promise people that I could record the discussion then type it up at home?

Samotnaf
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Sep 17 2010 02:27

Be interested in that - but it could be a mammoth task. I'd be very grateful, though: my interest is not merely 'academic' - it could help with bringing up to date a hard copy version of the book which is, hopefully, going to be done within the next year.

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smg
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Sep 17 2010 10:55

Access to the audio recordings would be awesome. Transcription is a lot of work and not needed.

nastyned
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Sep 17 2010 11:48
Marky b wrote:
using what I learnt from Wildcat about democracy

LOL!

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Kronstadt_Kid
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Sep 17 2010 13:27
smg wrote:
Access to the audio recordings would be awesome. Transcription is a lot of work and not needed.

If you know anyone who knows how to upload big audio files onto the internet then I could do it...

Werther De Goethe
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Sep 18 2010 10:43

The phrase "fiddling while Rome burns" springs to mind.

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Django
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Sep 18 2010 11:07
Werther De Goethe wrote:
The phrase "fiddling while Rome burns" springs to mind.

Yeah, 'cause talking about the most significant workers' struggles in recent history and trying to draw lessons from it is a total waste of time and stops you from doing anything else, wheras trolling forum threads on the internet is a worthwhile use of time and energy.

Samotnaf
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Sep 18 2010 20:24

But it's essential to talk about the miners struggle (amongst "the most significant workers' struggles in [fairly] recent history" in the UK) in relation to these lessons - the only future use it may have. A lot of stuff on libcom does have that "fiddling while Rome burns" about it, and I'm not excluding myself (on occasions) from this: it's essential to emphasise that the movement against this world is in as dire straits as the world itself. Beginning again in the present is the constant necessity.

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Boydell
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Sep 18 2010 23:04

Hello. This forum sounds very interesting, i would like to know more if you have the time to write.

Could you tell us on a practical level how it works? Is it based around finding theoretical common ground, or a practical, collective 'holding of noses' and putting up with each other to achieve common goals? That sounds more negative than i mean it to, but i hope you get what i mean.

I'm from Bristol and there's a lot of debate going on about this kind of alliance-building at the moment.

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jef costello
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Sep 18 2010 23:33
Marky b wrote:
smg wrote:
Access to the audio recordings would be awesome. Transcription is a lot of work and not needed.

If you know anyone who knows how to upload big audio files onto the internet then I could do it...

use rapidshare/megaupload/mediafire these sites allow you to upload files and then for people to download them directly from a URL.
Transcription takes forever so I wouldn't advise it unless you are an extremely good typist. Picking out key points in the discussion, or breaking it into several tracks to help people negotiate would be helpful though.

Spikymike
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Sep 23 2010 19:02

Unfortunately I spent far too long on the descriptive stuff in my introduction and had to rush the conclusions but some of that can be found in the recomended reading. Might mean the recording when it appears goes on a bit! so be warned.

Attendance was fairly low again about 10/11 people, no Solfed members but a couple of SPGBers for the first time.

I think these kind of regular forums (in addition perhaps to some longer one off events) are a good idea but they do need a committed core of regulars to make it work - at the moment we have that but only just. It needs a fair bit of time and patience discussing some basic ideas, current struggles and historical lessons (which has some value in itself) before any semblance of agreement is likely to emmerge that allows any other form of common work by most participants and I suspect some are not willing to spend that kind of time when they already have comitments to their own groups. But it does provide a space for those individuals sympathetic to broad libertarian communist politics who are still looking to clarify their ideas but not to sink their lot in with the existing groups at present.

I am away for a while soon so may miss the next one or two sessions. Hope some of our other missing regulars will step into the breach.

Werther De Goethe
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Sep 24 2010 12:55
Spikymike wrote:
no Solfed members

The more I hear/read about Solfed the more I like 'em. tongue

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Alf
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Sep 24 2010 21:56

but they do need a committed core of regulars to make it work

Spikeymike, or others who take part: do you think that this core needs to form or delegate some kind of organising committee?

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Kronstadt_Kid
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Oct 20 2010 07:34

Hi everyone,

by following this link you should be able to download an MP3 of the talk.
http://www.mediafire.com/?c4g2da6t87us0fp