MDF Birmingham Mtg Sat 22nd April 2017

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Spikymike
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Apr 6 2017 10:11
MDF Birmingham Mtg Sat 22nd April 2017

This open discussion meeting will be held at the back bar of 'The Woodman' pub, New Canal Street (towards Curzan St) Birmingham, B5 5LG from 2 till 6 pm. on the subject of 'Women and Class Struggle'
''This discussion will attempt to place the situation of women in class society. It is likely to discuss the social trends of recent years in that context. It is also likely to incorporate issues such as the participation of women in the class struggle of the past, how to view domestic labour, feminism in class society, violence against women, how mens' and womens' roles have changed and how to fight for an equal society in the future.''
There will be a short introduction to what is at this stage a very broad subject which we may refine for future meetings.
To be honest the regular attenders at the Midlands Discussion meetings over recent years have been constituted in their make up more by men than women - don't know if that has deterred us from taking up these issue more often but let's hope that will change.

Burgers
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Apr 6 2017 14:54

Interesting how Mike has chosen to drop this part out of the intro for libcom that was on the ICC forum.

Quote:
Feminist arguments have had a major influence on current thinking, including notions of "political correctness". But do such examples mean capitalism has given women freedom and equality? Of course not. Women remain exploited as workers and subjugated as women in a fundamentally paternalistic society.

But then this no doubt is also reflected in the change of titles from
The original suggestion of 'Rape culture and apologism within revolutionary organisations?' to 'Women and Class Struggle'.

Rather than focus on the CWO/ICT (the main organisation in the MDF and one they are planning a joint meeting with at Sheffield anarchist bookfair) attempts to play down rape "he was young" "he'd been drinking and taking drugs" etc, it's attempts to cover up a serial rapist and also a violent domestic abuser in Canada, the still continued failure to put out a French language statement (the Canadian section was french speaking). They instead will choose to focus on to quote one of the leading members of the MDF

Quote:
I am looking forward to a discussion about the role of feminism and women's struggles in the context of class society and identity politics.

No doubt it will be classic discussion on the bourgeois nature of all feminism, while dismissing rape apologism and rape culture as simple identity politics.

Spikymike
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Apr 7 2017 09:10

Burgers should not make assumptions or insinuations about the motives of people (members or otherwise of the ICT) based on a short ad for a meeting. This subject has been widened from a very much earlier more focused issue that I suggested of 'the relationship between womens' domestic labour and wage labour' precisely to cover some of the issues Burgers implies are being avoided.

link
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Apr 17 2017 10:55

Burgers/Theft should also take some time to express and explain his own understanding of issues. This is something he has failed to do so far.

Burgers
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Apr 18 2017 15:34

I don't need to explain anything. I'm not the one who is defending a organisation that tried to cover up for a serial rapist and still has not released a statement on the domestic violence one of it's members carried out. I'm not the one defending a organisation that to this day is still sharing links to a third positionist group on it's own website.

el psy congroo
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Apr 18 2017 15:43

Can we stop doxing people on this websitee for fucks sake!

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Serge Forward
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Apr 18 2017 17:46
Burgers wrote:
I don't need to explain anything. I'm not the one who is defending a organisation that tried to cover up for a serial rapist and still has not released a statement on the domestic violence one of it's members carried out. I'm not the one defending a organisation that to this day is still sharing links to a third positionist group on it's own website.

Burgers, you may not need to explain anything, but generally, when you make an allegation, it's good practice to substantiate that allegation. For instance, I gather the ICT may have handled the episode with the Canadian group poorly. But whether this means they "tried to cover up for a serial rapist" really needs substantiating. Likewise, if the ICT is defending someone who carries out domestic violence, then surely you need to substantiate that too? As for the "links to a third positionist group" I've had a pretty good look on their leftcom website but still can't find anything like that. So could you post a link please?

Burgers
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Apr 19 2017 07:24

Search for the term "Engymo" on there site and you will find links in various languages.
As for evidence I have posted that info up elsewhere already on this forum, the ICT is happy to lie about stuff and produce things, but only after I went public.

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Serge Forward
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Apr 18 2017 21:27

Well I've just had a look but the only thing I saw from you was this:

Quote:
Maybe they need 1400 hours to explain all the links on the CWO/ICT website to the so-called Inter[nationalist] Comrades from Greek who they used to be close to and still share much of there stuff and that is before all the rape and domestic violence.

Which isn't really evidence... unless I'm being a bit dim and missed another post from you that does substantiate your allegations. But the onus is not on anyone reading your allegations to go and search on "engymo" (though I don't actually know what engymo is). Surely the onus is on you to provide sources. These are serious claims you make, Burgers. So you should at least back up your claims otherwise you're in danger of sounding like an internet troll.

Burgers
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Apr 19 2017 08:37
Quote:
Search for the term "Engymo" on there site and you will find links in various languages.

Engymo is the website of the third positionist group ICT had links to from Greece.

I think it would be totally inappropriate to share links to a nationalist website site on here, but the source is the ICT website, even though they claimed back in August 2016 to be removing them.

Links to the Canadian stuff is here https://libcom.org/forums/news/international-communist-tendency-rape-resignation-04102016

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Serge Forward
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Apr 19 2017 08:44

Ta. Will have a proper shuftee later.

Spikymike
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Apr 20 2017 12:04

OK - so going back to my original interest in this open discussion it's a bit late in the day but these two texts might provide some material to spark our wider discussion:
http://libcom.org/library/woman-question-gilles-dauve (and the associated critique of Federici's approach here: http://www.troploin.fr/node/85) plus,
http://libcom.org/library/insurrections-intersections-feminism-intersectionality-anarchism

As regards the argument about the ICT/CWO and the Greek group they have published this:
www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2017-03-26/under-a-false-flag
The ICT isn't the first and probably wont be the last to have been taken for a ride by their enthusiasm in finding at first sight another small group in a part of the world in which they have few contacts that seemed initially promising.

Spikymike
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Apr 21 2017 13:43

bump - tomorrow now.