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MDF mtg Birmingham 27th September - W.W.2/Fascism/Anti-Fascism

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Spikymike
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Aug 17 2014 14:07
MDF mtg Birmingham 27th September - W.W.2/Fascism/Anti-Fascism

Advance Notice.

Following on from meetings in Birmingham and Sheffield on World War One and it's aftermath the next Midlands Discussion Forum meeting will discuss the lead in to World War Two, Fascism and Anti-Fascism.

It will be held on Saturday the 27th September 2014 from 1pm till 5pm at 'Birmingham Friends of the Earth',The Warehouse, 54-57 Allison Street, Birmingham, B5 5TH. a short walk from Birmigham New Street and Moor Street railway stations. (note slightly earlier start time than usual).

For directions see here: http://www.birminghamfoe.org.uk/other/directions-from-new-street-station...

I would recomend the following short text as a useful contribution to part of the discussion:
http://libcom.org/library/when-insurrections-die although it deals mainly with the 'internal' dynamics of class struggle and political movements rather than the broader economic and interimperialist backcloth to the War. Perhaps others might recomend something short to cover that aspect?

All Welcome.

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Alf
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Aug 17 2014 18:49

comrades could also read our critical review of 'When insurrections die...'

http://en.internationalism.org/wr/230_Fbarrot.htm

and maybe a classic text from Bilan on antifascism

http://en.internationalism.org/ir/101_bilan.htm

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Theft
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Aug 18 2014 05:15

Not to be picky but the title is "WW2 - Imperialism and Anti-Fascism." smile

Spikymike
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Aug 18 2014 09:33

Although I am with Dauve in his rejection of a rigid dividing line as expressed in the 'political domination world-wide first - social/economic change second' approach of traditional Left Communists, I am by no means uncritical of other aspects of Dauve's approach and accept that there are a couple of substantive points in the ICC 'review' that Alf links which are at least worthy of further discussion. Unfortunately this 1999 'review' suffers from the usual self-defined role of the ICC as 'the defender of the faith' against what it regards as communist heretics, with it's now familiar sweeping denunciations of those it amalgamates under it's umbrella categories of 'modernism' and 'the swamp', (not to mention it's past? rejection of everything anarchist).

Spikymike
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Aug 23 2014 14:24

Theft is correct I think about the slight change to the title of this meeting (my error) which should be World War Two, Imperialism and Anti-fascism, but the previous heading won't hopefully cause anyone to be confused about the intended scope of the meeting.

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Alf
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Aug 29 2014 17:19

Spiky wrote:
I am by no means uncritical of other aspects of Dauve's approach and accept that there are a couple of substantive points in the ICC 'review' that Alf links which are at least worthy of further discussion.

what were the substantive points, in your opinion?

Spikymike
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Aug 31 2014 13:54

Alf,

This is for further discussion but briefly, Dauve when looking back (as does the ICC) at the events in Spain probably overestimates the potential of 'communist measures' in terms of both the internal situation and the international isolation of the movement in Spain following such substantial defeat of the rest of the European working class post 1918, which however is not to say that everything that happened was predetermined or that the Spanish working class could somehow have intelectually foreseen such a defeat in advance and charted a different course from the beginning.

slothjabber
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Sep 1 2014 10:16

I hope that some comrades from the ICC will be able to attend.

That goes for the SPGB too, just in case anyone thinks it doesn't.

It's unfortunate we weren't able to co-ordinate dates better. Originally this meeting was supposed to be in July, and all day, with a similar format to the ICC discussion days. We moved it to September because we thought the ICC day of discussion was going to be happening in July, and we didn't want to suffer from the gravity of other events that might pull participants who only, perhaps, could make a couple of trips down/over in any given set of months.

Then when we'd nailed a date that was late enough after July, but early enough from October (the London Bookfair, obviously another 'attractor'), we found out that the ICC was holding the day of discussion in September anyway. So we've put the all-day meeting we were going to do on hold for the moment.

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Alf
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Sep 1 2014 10:58

Yes it is a bit unfortunate to have the two meetings so close together, but we also needed to coordinate with other ICC sections who are holding similar meetings around the same time.

Spikymike
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Sep 1 2014 11:10

Yes these are open meetings for anyone with a genuine interest in the subject matter In the past they have generally attracted people from a political background associated with a Libertarian, Anarchist, Left, Councilist, Impossibilist, 'Ultra-left' or similar socialist/communist background but that isn't a requirement of course - so no one should be put off. We are a mostly friendly if argumentative little group.

Baritz
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Sep 2 2014 09:01

I've advertised this on the SPGB forum, but note that there's an SPGB dayschool in London on the 27th September.

slothjabber
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Sep 3 2014 22:58

Thanks for that Baritz, I appreciate it and I'm sure the others in the MDF do too.

Spikymike
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Sep 15 2014 13:17

There is also a worthwhile meeting over the same weekend promoted by the AWW in Liverpool but I'm already committed to this one, so thought I would add a couple of the shorter texts from the libcom 'World War two recomended reading list' as useful background reading to those mentioned above and relevant to the corrected title of our MDF meeting:

http://libcom.org/history/world-war-ii-peoples-war-howard-zinn and

http://libcom.org/history/world-war-class-war

Spikymike
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Sep 20 2014 12:27

And perhaps this short text could be useful in connecting our discussion on World War 2 with the current situation in Russia and Eastern Europe:

http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2014-09-17/75-years-since-the-soviet-...

Spikymike
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Sep 24 2014 09:13

So this MDF meeting is next Saturday the 27th Sept - note slightly earlier start time of 1pm and venue - All welcome.

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Alf
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Sep 25 2014 23:35

I wont personally be at the meeting, but I can send a link to a new article on our website which is certainly relevant to it. A bit long at such short notice perhaps....but worth the effort, I would contend

http://en.internationalism.org/internationalreview/201409/10367/war-spai...

Spikymike
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Sep 26 2014 13:19

Some sound points in this ICC piece but I think Dauve (touched on only briefly in his 'When Insurrections die' text) and some other of the 'communisers' have a more balanced approach on the problematic politicall/social, rupture-continuity debate in the context of todays global real domination of capital, which cannot be reduced to a simple anarchist/marxist ideological division.

Spikymike
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Oct 1 2014 15:55

So for those unable to attend this meeting who are still interested, and willing to tolerate the odd tentative 'off the cuff' contribution in the discussion, there is an audio recording available (along with some other past MDFmeetings) on this site: http://www.freecommunism.org