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Moving Gender Workshop @ No Border Camp, Ruskin House, 23 Coomee Rd Croydon CR01BD - 21 Friday September

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raw
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Joined: 8-10-03
Sep 25 2007 12:03
Devrim wrote:
raw wrote:
Yawn.....typical libcom bullshit responses from the usual losers

Hardly surprising when you behave like a refuge from Harry Enfield. I think that the telling fact is that you would even think it let alone say it. It shows a complete lack of class perspective. To then go on defending it after the fact just confirms the fact.

raw wrote:
interesting to note again that no comment what ever on the No Borders Camp or the demonstrations

Yes, I don't think that there is anything interesting about it at all. It is just another activisty single issue campaign probably supported by lots of people who look down on workers because they don't earn as much as them.
I would go as far to say that if you can't argue against a few workers without class prejudice coming out then you really shouldn't bother.
You write:

raw wrote:
For me I rather have a bit of dignity. I mean where do YOU draw the line. Do you believe in a physical confrontation of racists and fascist workers?

I think sometimes it is necessary, but it is better to try to talk to people first.
From what you said though the argument wasn't with the racist postmen:

raw wrote:
Believe me, this was not uncommon. I almost had a fight with some fucking labourers (one black and one white). The usual "get a job", I shouted back (ad infinitum) what "£6.00 per hour like you, I was earning that when I was 18". Fucking cunts.

So you got pissed off that some people were questioning what you were doing, so you decided to tell them how much more money you earnt than them.
Well done.
Devrim

I have to reply to this.

Devrim wrote:
Yes, I don't think that there is anything interesting about it at all. It is just another activisty single issue campaign probably supported by lots of people who look down on workers because they don't earn as much as them.

How open minded of you Devrim, I did expect a lot more from you. Me and my comments here are NOT supposed to be neccesarily reflection of those involved in No Borders or the No Border Camp. And considering you have not understood what happened at the camp and demonstrations here goes again.

May: 150 people demonstrated in Crawley against new detention centre for migrants
Stalls and information distributed around crawley over the next few months. Stalls were held in the main shopping district and many hundreds of people were informed and spoken with. Public meetings were organised. Free gigs and so on in Crawley. We produce the "GatwickXpress" newspaper detailing all the politics and issues surrounding migrant struggles, including calling for class solidarity with migrants, against BNP in Crawley and the need for a No Borders movement in the UK. Over 5,000 were handed out.

Sept. 19th: No Border Camp opens with 300+ attending.
Sept. 20th: 50 people from the Camp hold a welcome event in Crawley town centre: http://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/09/381616.html
Sept. 21st: 150 people including asylum seekers hold a picket of the two reporting centres in Croydon. An Asylum seeker was arrested after banging on the windows of the reporting centre. Serious attempts were made to de-arrest him and block police vans. 2 more arrests. Leaflets were distributed to workers at the reporting centres calling for class solidarity with migrants.
Sept. 22nd: Over 500 anti-fascists, anarchists and migrants march in Crawley town centre to Tinsley house detention centre. It was a show of antifascist and anti-racist solidarity in a town which has had a 16% turn out for BNP in the last election.

More reports on Indymedia UK // www.noborders.org.uk

If you have time to learn what happened then do. What I said to those pricks in croydon was my responsibility, take it up with me not No Borders.

Raw

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Ed
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Sep 25 2007 12:54
raw wrote:
this is also my last comment on this thread.

Yawn yourself, how many times have we heard you say this only to come back with essay length posts?

Seriously raw, you're starting to look like a kid who's been thrown out of a party spending the rest of his night shouting abuse at the people smoking outside. If you think we're all losers then don't post here. If I'm being dead fucking honest, its starting to look a little obsessive. You've got as many posts as me on these boards for fuck's sake! And I'm an admin!

confused

Caiman del Barrio
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Joined: 28-09-04
Sep 26 2007 05:55
raw wrote:
a huge amount of racism by a group of 3 white postal workers. Here's what they said
postie 1: "do you know what there doing there?"
postie 2: "Its a demonstration about racism, surely they should be demonstrating at all those cunts that come into our country"

A young black postie turns up, the white one says to him "Hey mate, its all your lot down there, why don't you go join 'em"

So wait, hang on, I counted 2 white postal workers and one black postal worker. I counted one racist comment, from one white postal worker. Why are you lumping the black guy, who is actually suffering a racist attack at work (which is heavy shit) in with his colleagues instead of complaining to Royal Mail about the guy (or, if you're so volatile and confrontational cos of your terrifyingly working class background, punched him)?

raw
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Sep 26 2007 08:07
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
raw wrote:
a huge amount of racism by a group of 3 white postal workers. Here's what they said
postie 1: "do you know what there doing there?"
postie 2: "Its a demonstration about racism, surely they should be demonstrating at all those cunts that come into our country"

A young black postie turns up, the white one says to him "Hey mate, its all your lot down there, why don't you go join 'em"

So wait, hang on, I counted 2 white postal workers and one black postal worker. I counted one racist comment, from one white postal worker. Why are you lumping the black guy, who is actually suffering a racist attack at work (which is heavy shit) in with his colleagues instead of complaining to Royal Mail about the guy (or, if you're so volatile and confrontational cos of your terrifyingly working class background, punched him)?

just to be clear. 3 white postal workers were in agreement and were racist. 1 black postal worker was a being abused by his work colleagues because he was black. Would have happily had ago if I weren't with my 15 month old son.

cheers

Raw

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jef costello
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Sep 26 2007 11:53

I believe all of our feminist posters are waiting for an apology for the use of the word cunt as an insult Raw.
This was clearly a dliberate misogynistic attack as you have made it clear in previous posts that you have recognised that that is how this word is used.

Why do you hate women ?

Caiman del Barrio
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Sep 27 2007 17:33
raw wrote:
Would have happily had ago if I weren't with my 15 month old son.

So does this mean you realise that sometimes life has to get in the way of being Anarchist Superman? I mean, the amount of abuse you've thrown at people on here for daring to have a life that doesn't revolve around squats, tyres and pillowcases...

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cantdocartwheels
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Sep 27 2007 22:21
Quote:
You refuse to see any context and a drawing a ridiculous picture of a some turn-the-cheek lefty which has a witty yet informative response to 'get a job' yelled by a passerby. Well mate, glad you are the gold tongued PR wizard of the anarchist, look forward you and your outgoing win-em-over ways on the streets in future.

Yeah being a ''pr wizard '' and all i have these two like craaazy plans. I'll either be making arguements for class struggle anarchism on demos, or ignoring insults becaue responding in a childish or insulting fashion makes the group or demo look bad. With this magical new formula how can i fail.

Caiman del Barrio
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Sep 28 2007 01:11

Oh shut up Belfast obviously losing his temper isn't a solution. Yeah it may well be "legitimate" but what's the point of a fluffy demo if not for publicity, and if you're kicking off and shouting at passers by then that just makes...bad publicity.

Caiman del Barrio
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Sep 28 2007 02:12

Well yeah but that's more of a critique of demos really. I mean, it's just if you're gonna basically attempt to court the media with demonstrations, then you should attempt to appeal to them on their grounds. Otherwise it's even more fruitless exercise.

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cantdocartwheels
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Sep 28 2007 07:50
revol68 wrote:
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
Oh shut up Belfast obviously losing his temper isn't a solution. Yeah it may well be "legitimate" but what's the point of a fluffy demo if not for publicity, and if you're kicking off and shouting at passers by then that just makes...bad publicity.

well in my opinion this shit about PR and publicity is trapped in dead end leftism.

oh god please tell me you're joking

The issu

Quote:
e isn't some PR moralistic, 'we're above that' shit, the issue is why is someones low wages seen as a relevant or legitimate angle for attack from a suppoused anarchist?

What so if your standing on an anarchist stall in town and someone shouts ''get a job'' at the stall, it would in your eyes be completely acceptable to scream at the top of your voice ''fuck off you fucking cunts!1'' would it? Obviously if your out representing a group you have some loose form of collective discipline,

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Joseph Kay
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Sep 28 2007 08:23
revol68 wrote:
the real issue is why an anarchist who likes to bang on about precarcity would choose to insult people for not earning very much.

what would zizek say? tongue

Caiman del Barrio
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Sep 28 2007 16:33

Firstly, he'd probably recommend Belfast got the version of Firefox with spellchecker. Or does Belfast take BBBBBBBBBBBB's line on this?

Secondly, he's backpedalled from all his usual quasi-macho pomp and hysterical hyperbole to a point that is sufficiently general for me to able to agree with.

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cantdocartwheels
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Sep 30 2007 15:17
revol68 wrote:
Quote:
What so if your standing on an anarchist stall in town and someone shouts ''get a job'' at the stall, it would in your eyes be completely acceptable to scream at the top of your voice ''fuck off you fucking cunts!1'' would it? Obviously if your out representing a group you have some loose form of collective discipline,

look if you love strawmen so much why don't you fuck off to a Wurzel Gummich fansite. There are clearly a host of factors in such a situation and a variety of ways to response accordingly but I certainly wouldn't try the patronising leftie/teacher 'educative' approach if someone is just wanting to take the piss, infact i'd more than likely shout back either 'got one it's shite' or 'why they're shite', on the other hand if they are real tossers i might just insult them back.

The real issue isn't your middle class teachery lesson in appropriate behaviour, the real issue is why an anarchist who likes to bang on about precarcity would choose to insult people for not earning very much.

like teachers man, they're like weally bad because they're like authowitarian and tell children how to behave, but you k ow whats even worse, they're often lefties, like one time they stole my cwayons an told me off for using bad words