Redwatch [dot] org
Jul 16 2004 12:28
Uh, yea, I saw this site yesterday on that BBC1 programme 'The Secret Agent' they spoke about a site called Redwatch and i got curious and decided to check it out! Has ANYONE actually seen this site!? Its crazy! To me its just a pro-nazi and fascist site! Can anyone figure it out? Its anti-communist but is proud working class? Its odd. Well thats the way i see it. Does anyone know what this sites about and whats the point of it? Im so confused about what its actually their for! 
Jul 16 2004 13:33
#2
Not to be paranoid or anything, but anyone who clicks the above link might wish to use some kind of anonymizing software.
Redwatch is run by and for Nazis, for the purposes of intimidating leftists/anti-fascists. It's potentially a very serious threat, but due to there being a relatively small number of fascists in the UK, attacks are rare. Don't let them scare you.
More information (unfortunately from slightly dodgy sources):
Jul 16 2004 16:38
#3
um, it would be good if someone could remove the link to redwatch in that message above, otherwise the fash will know it's been linked to from here, and then a load of trolls will appear and generally be a pain in the arse.
but like people have said, it's a kind of hitlist of those the fash consider "reds", but mainly it's for intimidation purposes and to make the fash feel hard.
Jul 16 2004 17:00
#4
OK, i took the link of the post, sorry about that. So yea, so like you said, the site is a serious threat! But apparently the whole reason they posted up address's and junk (redwatch says) is because the Anti-Nazi Movement started posting up address's first! On the site they say that they will offer the ANL a truce and take the address's off. If thats the case, arnt the ANL just as bad as Redwatch if not worse for raising tension between the two groups? I believe everyone should b entitled to opinions nomatter how extreme but when it starts to get to the point where people are going out on the streets, photographing each other and finding out as much as they can about the people in the opposit group, isnt that a cause for REAL concern!? Does anyone believe that this site is actually linked into the BNP? 
Oh, im not able to change the subject. Can someone get rid of the '.org' on the end? Thanks!
Jul 16 2004 17:28
#5
The reason ANL aren't as bad as redwatch, is because ANL aren't fash.
It's like saying that women's only spaces are bad because they discriminate against men without taking note of the fact that they exist purely to try and redress the balance of power between the sexes.
Jul 16 2004 19:35
#6
Toxictears wrote:
arnt the ANL just as bad as Redwatch if not worse
Are you serious?
The ANL are clearly an anti-fascist organisation, set up by the SWP and other leftists.
Redwatch is a fascist political tool, they are paranoid about us, they like to know where what they perceive as 'the left' organises.
It is absolutely insane to even compare the two, they are completely different.
To sumarise viva blair peach!
john
ps and yeah that .org should be removed
Jul 16 2004 23:32
#7
No, im not meaning in a...bad way as such. I obviously know that it stupid to compare the two and obv ANL are fighting for something MUCH more sane then the Redwatch junk but i mean as in the fact that if ANL has been posting up address's then isnt that giving the Redwatch people more fuel to get so wound up!? Well i dont know anyway, im going by word of mouth :S
Jul 17 2004 00:58
#8
The ANL posting up the names and addresses of Fascists? I think this is highly unlikely.
1/ The ANL has a record of condemning those who use violence against fascists ("squadism" is what they call it).
2/ The ANL also rarely had such accurate information either.
3/ The ANL is, as I understand it largely subsumend into United Against Fascism or whatever these days.
4/ The ANL has primarily been a recruiting device for the Socialist Workers Party. It's collective strategy (and this would include its website one would have thought) is determined by this aim - which I very much doubt is furthered by such tactics as you mention.
IMO it's pretty stupid to get sucked into tit for tit assaults on individuals like this, and organisations that work this way (e.g. Searchlight, and very possibly Redwatch itself) stink of the provocateur.
Stay well away....
Jul 17 2004 08:19
#9
Two points
1. Some of those involved with Redwatch are people (such as Tony White) thrown out of far-right groups for working with Searchlight.
2. The SWP have published details of Nick Griffins home address and phone number in the past. That seems pretty similar, in legal terms, to what Redwatch does. Equally there is no way they would have got that number, or published it, without Searchlight.
Jul 17 2004 09:53
#10
From www.antifa.org.uk
Searchlight for Beginners by Larry O'Hara - Anybody involved in anti-fascism for more than five minutes will encounter the monthly "international ant-fascist magazine" Searchlight. There is a lot more to Searchlight than a monthly magazine. They have a virtual monopoly on media stories about the far-right in the UK, in both the print and TV media. They regularly meet with, and exchange information with the police, security services and government officials. Whatever Searchlight is, it is not what it says on the tin.
Jul 17 2004 10:16
#11
Whatever ANL's structural problems these days, its still ridiculous with teh far right on the rise, to have petty arguements with them. Plus i still respect them for their mobilisation in the 70's and early 80's, even if they are a pathetic shadow of their former selves.
And i don't care less if the SWP ae involved.
And as for searchlight, of course its shit, thats obvious. You just have to look at the position the photos have been taken from or the tone of the headlines to know that its written by the police/mi5.
But as much as i hate the ANL's current links with searchlight, defeating the fash comes first.
john
Jul 17 2004 11:14
#12
cantdocartwheels wrote:
Whatever ANL's structural problems these days, its still ridiculous with teh far right on the rise, to have petty arguements with them. Plus i still respect them for their mobilisation in the 70's and early 80's, even if they are a pathetic shadow of their former selves.And i don't care less if the SWP ae involved.
Petty arguments?!
The ANL is an SWP font - that's how involved they are. It mirrors the same political culture, inefficacy and incompetence of the SWP. There are plenty of first hand accounts that point to the ANL effectively alienating other anti-racist/fascist activists and working class communities. Instead of empowering people to fight fascism and racism from the grassrooots, the ANL just parachute into communities and then withdraw - there's no continuity or even any reflection on what grassroots politics and empowerment entail - just like the SWP's approach to class politics - vacuous rhetoric. Isn't this on careful reflection damaging to any movement against the far-right in this country?
I'm not sure that the ANL's dumbed downed rhetoric about Nazis helps either - there's little analysis or context put into this type of saturated branding. People need a lot more than an opportunistic attempt at an SWP front to take on the far-right in their communities. I think it's safe to say that the ANL's political culture is just as alienating and engenders just as much apathy as the SWP. And apathy is just what the far right and the state thrive on...
Jul 17 2004 16:49
#13
Could it be argued that AFA (anti-fascist action) is the action orientated wing of the ANL or are they two completely separate groups?
Jul 17 2004 17:14
#14
ANL and AFA are two completely seperate groups. I'm not sure how much either exists anymore with them both moving on to "other projects".
John/Can't Do Cartwheels - have you ever been involved with the ANL? As an ex-ANL organiser ( 
) let me assure you that if defeating the fash comes first, you should steer well away from them. I can give you specific examples of how the ANL have (inadvertantly perhaps) actually strengthened the fascists in the UK... 
None of the British antifascist groups are perfect but the ANL...
Searchlight, it should be added, are very anti-anarchist (well whaddya expect from a bunch of stalinoid spooks...)
Jul 17 2004 21:38
#15
The ANL and Searchlight both think that fascists need to be defeated -- and so liberal democracy needs to be defended. These days the ANL are part of UAF which includes Labour, LibDems and Tories...
Capitalist parties like these are responsible for far more misery and death than the NF and the BNP. Of course I want to stop the fascists, but not if that means joining up with David Blunkett
Jul 17 2004 23:51
#16
the anl are pretty much dead. killed officially by the swp because respect and the unity coalition were born. (keep bringing on the fronts... 
)
redwatch is kinda pathetic. rarely gets info right and rarely updates. just sad scare tactics ( note to redwatch: you need to get someone working on it that updates it more than once every year, but then you didn't even get my details right when you did manage to update it. i'd feed whoevers in charge to the rabid kittie cats if i were you)
Quote:
Capitalist parties like these are responsible for far more misery and death than the NF and the BNP.
yep. its David Blunkett and the rest who keep feeding the bnp etc. There is a lot in the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Bill. It creates new offences for those arriving with no documents or refusing to co-operate with removal; introduces electronic tagging for asylum seekers; gives immigration officers more arrest, search and seizure powers; withdraws all asylum support from families who do not leave 'voluntarily' when their asylum appeal is dismissed; extends the definition of 'safe countries'; and removes appeal rights.
Quote:
Whatever ANL's structural problems these days, its still ridiculous with teh far right on the rise, to have petty arguements with them. Plus i still respect them for their mobilisation in the 70's and early 80's, even if they are a pathetic shadow of their former selves.And i don't care less if the SWP ae involved.
In its current incarnation the ANL/RESPECT/UNITED AGAINST FACISM will sleep with Labour/LibDems/Tories, anything for votes for RESPECT, regardless of the fact that capitalist parties endorse the policies above.
Its not ridiculous to have "petty" arguments with them, its essential.
I think its basically a hit list of leftist opponents. It covers quite a broad spectrum from labour members to sociailists and anti-fascist organisers. Its a tool of intimidation though i'm not entirely sure of how many people who have appeared on it have actually been attacked by the far right.
It'll advocate a strong working class and portray itself as working class because that is their 'target market' if you like, the disposessed, angry and exploited, those who will cling to any sort of hope or who wish to find someone to blame for their condition. In essence it aims to distract attention away from those who organise and construct society (ie the ruling elite) and focus on psuedo enemies like ethnic minorities and the left.