Crimethinc hit back at Me, Libcom - Years later
Nov 16 2007 07:20
Quote:
But what if you’re the sort of critic who has nothing constructive to offer? In that case, you’re welcome ignore us—if you really think we are a scourge that must be eradicated, don’t give us free publicity. If you absolutely can’t resist stooping to attacks, please don’t sic novices on us who can neither read nor spell, [THIS part links to my anarkismo article on them] who build and tear apart straw men the way others play with toy soldiers. If such screeds must be written, we request the task be entrusted to Wayne Price from NEFAC, whose intelligent analyses have impressed us—though Wayne obviously has better things to do, as all of you should.It might also be a good idea to double-check the accuracy of statements before printing them. An editor of the British libertarian communist website libcom.org had the good sense to send a draft of one anti-CrimethInc. diatribe to an actual CrimethInc. ex-worker. Among countless other inaccuracies, the document claimed that:
Nov 16 2007 07:42
#2
CrimethInc wrote:
If such screeds must be written, we request the task be entrusted to Wayne Price from NEFAC, whose intelligent analyses have impressed us—though Wayne obviously has better things to do, as all of you should.
People who are impressed by Wayne Price's analysis: CrimethInc
It says a lot.
Devrim
Nov 16 2007 07:46
#3
It's a strange one alright. Especially so considering they ought to be post-leftists and generally the main criticism of Wayne is that he is a total leftist. Forgot to link you guy it's over here.
Nov 16 2007 07:53
#4
guydebordisdead wrote:
It's a strange one alright. Especially so considering they ought to be post-leftists and generally the main criticism of Wayne is that he is a total leftist. Forgot to link you guy it's over here.
Not really, the word 'leftist' is being used in a completely different way. I am sure that is CrimethInc met the Communist Left, they would accuse us of being 'leftists' too.
Devrim
Nov 16 2007 09:50
#5
guydebordisdead wrote:
It's a strange one alright. Especially so considering they ought to be post-leftists and generally the main criticism of Wayne is that he is a total leftist. Forgot to link you guy it's over here.
I was talking to the author of that piece the other week, in which he fawned over a trade union bureaucrat. So he's a leftist.
That article's pathetic, especially the extract of our critique, which was draft and unpublished, sent to check factual accuracy in order to publish a correct one. But we didn't bother in the end cos they're a waste of space. And it was 2 years ago.
Nov 16 2007 10:05
#6
Crimethinc wrote:
we’re not interested in attempting to capture reality
I would think this goes without saying, really.
Nov 16 2007 10:09
#7
link 2 crimethinc article plox
Nov 16 2007 10:15
#8
Nov 16 2007 11:13
#9
Quote:
With a hammer in one hand and a rifle in the other lets see what kind of world we can make.
Quality.
Nov 16 2007 11:17
#10
It's kind of disturbing that they don't understand anarchist terminology, repeatedly referring to someone as a 'class war' anarchist, I think the term they were looking for is a 'class struggle' anarchist - unless they're referring to the group of the same name. Which I doubt.
Nov 16 2007 15:10
#11
guydebordisdead wrote:
It's kind of disturbing that they don't understand anarchist terminology, repeatedly referring to someone as a 'class war' anarchist, I think the term they were looking for is a 'class struggle' anarchist - unless they're referring to the group of the same name. Which I doubt.
Not exactly the biggest fan of crimethinc but this piece is funny, class war/class struggle anarchist is interchangeable amongst the crimethinc jargon people, and I'm making a guess that the anarchist he's talking about is SRB. Thats right. I think SRB is a secret crimethinc lover.
Nov 16 2007 15:13
#12
That whole part of the 'communique' was really fucking weird like. What exactly was their point. SRB, you're purged.
Nov 16 2007 15:17
#13
guydebordisdead wrote:
That whole part of the 'communique' was really fucking weird like. What exactly was their point. SRB, you're purged.
If you ban SRB then NEFAC will retaliate by sending Wayne to eat out of your dumpster. DO NOT FUCK AROUND!
Nov 16 2007 15:20
#14
thugarchist wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
That whole part of the 'communique' was really fucking weird like. What exactly was their point. SRB, you're purged.If you ban SRB then NEFAC will retaliate by sending Wayne to eat out of your dumpster. DO NOT FUCK AROUND!
Couldn't be worse than the time he was driving me around Rossport and ran down an innocent rabbit, followed by an elmer fudd impersonation. I was distraught.
Nov 16 2007 15:22
#15
You gonna make that allegation over a NEFAC list, thug? 
Nov 16 2007 15:25
#16
MJ wrote:
You gonna make that allegation over a NEFAC list, thug?
Just did like 10 seconds ago.
Nov 16 2007 15:33
#17
guydebordisdead wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
That whole part of the 'communique' was really fucking weird like. What exactly was their point. SRB, you're purged.If you ban SRB then NEFAC will retaliate by sending Wayne to eat out of your dumpster. DO NOT FUCK AROUND!
Couldn't be worse than the time he was driving me around Rossport and ran down an innocent rabbit, followed by an elmer fudd impersonation. I was distraught.
Wayne kills bunnies?
Nov 16 2007 15:48
#18
It couldn't have been innocent.
Nov 16 2007 16:03
#19
MJ wrote:
It couldn't have been innocent.
Maybe it was Israeli.
Nov 16 2007 16:21
#20
Someone from the libcom group comparing Jewish people to animals. Hmm.
Nov 16 2007 16:36
#21
One of our few non-Jewish members as well 
Nov 16 2007 16:59
#22
Quote:
The problem is not crimethinc fucking up class war politics and thus fucking up anarchism, the problem is class war anarchists having a hard time being able to articulate their ideas to a large audience in the same way that crimethinc is able to.
they are retroactively justifying the shite they produce but they do have a point of sorts. If the anarchist movement (sorry catch) in US at that point had been any good then they wouldn't have needed to bother with opposing crimethinc stuff, it would be an irrelevant hobby of some people, like naturism or S&M. as it was, the anarchist movement wasn't nearly as effective as crimethinc at producing propaganda, so lifestylist nonsense became de rigeur and decent anarchists ended up having to define themselves against crimethinc.
Nov 16 2007 17:38
#23
I don't think its as simple as that though ronan. Crimethinc were peddling easy answers for kids who wanted easy answers. Escapist, individualist and ultimately bourgeois pseudo-revolutionary ideas are appealing to youths in a period of low class struggle, it makes sense to not bother try to change things and is an easy cop-out. I'm not sure there's much anarchist-communists could really have done to intervene. Perhaps I'm too determinist.
I find it interesting that they think they're the biggest deal in anarchism because they printed a half million (or whatever amount) copies of "Fighting for our lives" for free. AF & WSM have distributed literally hundreds of thousands of free anarchist papers over the last few years in an area with a much smaller population density (british isles..), it's hardly like anarchist-communists are having trouble getting our ideas out. Ultimately their ideas are on the way out and they know it, hence a communique promising a return to action rather than simply a return to action.
Nov 16 2007 17:59
#24
guydebordisdead wrote:
I find it interesting that they think they're the biggest deal in anarchism because they printed a half million (or whatever amount) copies of "Fighting for our lives" for free. AF & WSM have distributed literally hundreds of thousands of free anarchist papers over the last few years in an area with a much smaller population density (british isles..), it's hardly like anarchist-communists are having trouble getting our ideas out. Ultimately their ideas are on the way out and they know it, hence a communique promising a return to action rather than simply a return to action.
Distribution figures for North American anarchist (and similar groups) publications
Crimethinc
500,000 copies of the free pamphlet Fighting For Our Lives
5 issues of the free paper Harbinger at up to 100,000 copies each
at least 6 other free newspapers at up to 35,000 copies each
at least 3 newsprint booklets at up to 40,000 copies each
at least 4 23"x15" double-sided newsprint posters at up to 75,000 copies each
at least 6 11"x17" printed posters at 5000 copies each
at least 10,000 photocopies each of the 'zine versions of Off the Map and Evasion
2 issues of the journal Rolling Thunder at 3000 copies each
the final 7 issues of the magazine Inside Front, each with an accompanying CD or vinyl record, at 3000 copies each
ARA
Turning the Tide (Anti-Racist Action): 8-10,000 ever other month (48,000-60,000 annually)
IWW
Industrial Worker – 11 times a year, circulation 5,500: (60,500 total annually)
NEFAC
Cause Commune #1-#13 circulation 3,000 (39,000 total)
Ruptures ?
Northeastern Anarchist circulation 1,000 (13,000? total)
Angry Tenant #1-#2 circulation 2000 (4,000 total)
Strike! #1: 3,000
Strike! #2: 6,000
Strike! #3: ?
Strike! Ontario 07/05, 08/05, 09/05, 10/05 circulation 1,000 (4,000 total)
Strike! Boston (single issue) circulation 100-200
Barricada (monthly) circulation 500
Catamount Tavern News (Vermont) quarterly 1,000-2,000
Whirlwind! (Hurricane Katrina): 1,000
WSA
Ideas and Action (WSA) 1982-1991
#1 circulation 600
#2-#5 circulation 1,000-1,200
#6 -#16 circulation 1,500
Total: 20,000
Not Associated with Specific or Mass Organization
Upping the Anti #1-#3 circulation 2,000 (6,000 total)
Anarcho-syndicalist Review, circulation 1,350
Anarchy - quarterly, circulation 6,200 (Winter 2006)
Alternative Press Review – semi-annual, circulation 7,500-8,000 (July 2006)
Fifth Estate, circulation 4,100
The Match! - Once or twice yearly, several thousand copies
Social Anarchism #1-#40 circulation 900: (36,000 total)
Practical Anarchy circulation 500-1000 copies
Slingshot circulation 15,000
Anybody know the circulation on Green Anarchy?
All and all... class struggle anarchists don't seem to have done such a good job relatively as others.
Nov 16 2007 18:26
#25
Dammit, thug beat me to the SRB joke.
Who is "Evasion's biggest fan"??
Nov 16 2007 18:39
#26
A comment on that Crimethinc blog claimed that
Quote:
a publication like Green Anarchy, with a circulation of around 6-8,000, and a subcription to 800 prisoners, probably is read by more working class people than perhaps most of the ‘class war’ anarchist publications. Same might be said about Rolling Thunder.
I find that somewhat hard to believe, but there is no doubt that the Crimethinc crowd does a much better job than US class struggle anarchists when it comes to spreading their propaganda.
Nov 16 2007 18:41
#27
flint: are you somehow related (perhaps genetically identical?) to JoeBlack2. The similarities are piling up.
Nov 16 2007 18:46
#28
Lads, sort your game out. I'm saving up to come over there and give you all a whooping (london bookfair style) if you don't get your distribution figures up by June.
Nov 16 2007 18:59
#29
I have a question for whoever the libcom editor is that contacted crimethinc, they say "The ex-worker grumpily informed him that, in fact, there were groups working on CrimethInc. projects on at least three continents, and CrimethInc. texts had circulated in well over a dozen languages.", so who and where are these groups? Enquiring minds want to know. 
Nov 16 2007 19:04
#30
ronan wrote:
flint: are you somehow related (perhaps genetically identical?) to JoeBlack2. The similarities are piling up.
I think we look a bit a like, and act a bit alike. We also seem to enjoy the same fiction.
That said, the above circulation information came out of a proposal than Andrew, Skip and myself were working on to suggest that NEFAC publish a federation wide popular newspaper in English with a circulation of 30,000. It seems to have died quietly while folks have focused on local papers with much less circulation. Ontario has "Common Cause", folks in Philly are renewing their collaboration with "The Defenestrator", folks in Baltimore/DC are putting together "The Insubordinate".
I still think a federation wide popular newspaper in English with circulation in the tens of thousands is still a good idea.
Strange that they should mention Wayne, I wrote the piece after a conversation with him about cwc.