All UK Passport holders to be finger printed
Apr 12 2005 08:30
By that nice Mr Clarke!
http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/17867379?source=Evening%20Standard
Ever get the feeling that they really, really don't trust us?
Apr 12 2005 09:29
#2
the button wrote:
Tough on travel, tough on the causes of travel.
Lmao.
Apr 12 2005 13:30
#3
Fucking hell...
Apr 12 2005 13:32
#4
...... more reasoned political analysis on enrager next week. 
Apr 12 2005 13:33
#5
You know you love it 
Apr 13 2005 08:47
#6
I think all the analasis is done on this issue, wouldn't be supprised if some day they forced us all to wear biochips to track our position every second of the day.
Anyway, why don't anarchists and activist groups get more involved in this? Along with ID cards and all the other restrictions on privicy thats going on at the moment I would've thought that this would be no.1 issue, but I've been to a few protests and meetings about this and not even seen one anarchist around. I think this is probably one of the most important issues of the early 21st century and if we don't do something to show there is opposition to this kind of thing then we're gunna be letting ourselves in for more invasion of our privicy later.
Apr 13 2005 09:45
#7
won't this help the Noble British Police Force solve crimes committed against the Workers of Britain quicker, preventing the criminals from repeating their crime?
Apr 13 2005 10:18
#8
What exactly are the arguments against the ID card scheme? Obviously for anarchists and other enemies of the state (anyone who choses to publicly speak out against any element of the system they live in) then the problem is clear, as enemies of government these cards could seriously curtail and inhibit our ability to dissent. But how exactly do these cards ehlp the police and secret services track us, in what way would be iris scan, finger print, biological details etc help the police track and control us?Surely names and addreses are ample?
Apr 13 2005 10:20
#9
The police will be allowed to check fingerprints found at the scene of a crime against the national database as a matter of course - for any crime.
Apr 13 2005 12:03
#10
Names and addresses can change tho.
Apr 13 2005 13:47
#11
Vaneigemappreciationclub wrote:
What exactly are the arguments against the ID card scheme? [...] how exactly do these cards ehlp the police and secret services track us, in what way would be iris scan, finger print, biological details etc help the police track and control us?Surely names and addreses are ample?
The ID cards themselves are a problem mainly because of the cost to taxpayers and the potential for intimidation IMO. The German police have been known to stop people heading to demos and insist on seeing ID. Under current proposals, you'll only have to report to a police station with your ID within x days (I forget how many; 5 or 7 I think), but it's a pretty small change to make them presentable on demand, once we all have cards anyway.
The bigger problem is the database. This will link information from your address to your health record to your criminal record, dole record, tax record... although there's meant to be controls on who has access to what, the potential for abuse is obvious. There will be a £1000 fine IIRC for failing to keep your registered address up to date.
The best arguments I've found to make to people who aren't heavily politicised are
1) The cost. £3.1bn is estimated by the government, and that doesn't include the cost of the police, NHS, DSS etc buying card-readers. By the time it's all been through PFI process, the inevitable budget overruns and so on, the total cost will be astronomical. Traditionally, you get a decent estimate for the cost of government IT projects by doubling the announced price and adding 10% for good luck.
2) The potential for mistakes. Previous PFI government IT projects have found themselves mired knee-deep in cock ups. Google for stories on the passport office, criminal records, and DSS and their problems with computers for details. Imagine how horrific it would be if a mistake in the database deleted your record, or recorded false information. This database unbelievably more complex than anything previously attempted in this country, given that it will record so much information on EVERYBODY. With 65 million people, a 0.01% error rate would affect 6,500 people.
3) The potenial for abuse. The odds of the security model working are very low. Currently, many private investigators have police contacts which they use to gain access to the criminal records database. Imagine how much worse this could get with the new database...
4) It won't achieve the stated objectives. Spain has ID cards, and still can't stop ETA and couldn't prevent the Madrid bombing. ID-related dole fraud is a fraction of total dole fraud, and far less money than the cost of the ID scheme. Illegal immigrants using the health service costs far less than the cost of the ID scheme (with some people, point out that health care is surely a human right whoever you are).
5) The potential for future abuse. Even if you think new labour are trustworthy, is it safe to assume that all future governments will be? The ID cards and database will hand the state massive powers to monitor us, which. even if not abused by this government or the next one, could be abused at any future point. The ID cards could be emplyed to repress legitimate political dissent, or to target a segment of the population for internment or worse. Hitler rose to power in a liberal democracy, are we willing to bet that no Hitler-like will ever sieze power in Britain?
HTH 
Apr 13 2005 13:52
#12
Some of this is merely the UK government copying what other EU governments have been doing for years (eg the stuff about everyone having to register their address with the police)
Of course these changes being introduced present a great opportunity for boycotts and non-compliance, something we should all be advocating.
The civil liberties arguments, whilst valid, can be put to the general public, but are wasted on the most draconian government this country has ever seen.
Apr 13 2005 14:10
#13
Jesus christ - another permanent database set up by the state.
This adds to the dna stuff that they hold on all those who have been charged - charged, not convicted - of an offence.
Tough on travel, tough on the causes of travel.