How did Cohn-Bendit end up in the Greens?

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kalabine
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Jun 28 2005 21:02

fairplay Mr. T

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Steven.
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Jun 28 2005 22:18
kalabine wrote:
thaw, are you mad?

thaw is "Joe Hill"

kalabine
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Jun 28 2005 23:14
John. wrote:
kalabine wrote:
thaw, are you mad?

thaw is "Joe Hill"

i know, it was a rhetorical question

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Steven.
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Jun 29 2005 15:07
kalabine wrote:
John. wrote:
kalabine wrote:
thaw, are you mad?

thaw is "Joe Hill"

i know, it was a rhetorical question

Ah grin

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Lazy Riser
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Jul 15 2005 19:36

Hi

I’ve just this minute got round to reading the libcom analysis of the Green Party. I don’t want to come over as the arbiter of good taste, but at the same time I thought I’d write this short note of thanks to those that contributed to it.

Thanks.

I have some minor quibbles with it, but they are entirely forgivable, especially in context of the authors stating that the piece will receive a finishing polish.

Whilst not being trite, the conclusion represents a perfectly satisfactory position that I’d be happy to sign up to.

If I might be allowed to proffer an opinion on where the piece might be improved, I think the analysis countering the Green’s proposals for democratisation and provisions for personal economic security are a little on the harsh side. I would be inclined to reward their line of reasoning on this, whilst punishing them a little more on their intrinsic misanthropy and middle class bias. That’s purely an explorative suggestion by the way, I’m perfectly happy if you guys really think otherwise.

Anyway, like I said, cheers for the work.

In solidarity

Chris

thaw
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Jul 15 2005 21:17

Thank you John.

Also, you do know there is a fine line between genius and madness? I like to think I am mainly on this side (apart from Tuesdays of course).

afraser
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Jul 16 2005 17:10

Nothing wrong with having the young Cohn-Bendt as a hero and the old Cohn-Bendt as a figure of fun, all at the same time. I have a 60's academic book contrasting him with the then up coming smart suited lawyer type Ralph Nader, quotes young Nader as saying he will always support the American corporate system, and contrasts young Cohn-Bendt as the perpetual anarchist anti-capitalist rebel. Now their aged versions are saying the exact opposites wink Similarly Tony Benn was a right right wing bastard when he was a young minister, young Bakunin was a pan-slavist, and so on - sometimes people get better as they get older, although most often it is the other way around.

Chris (Lazy Riser) - Schweickart's system is - no question - Libertarian Socialist to my mind, although he himself comes from a Marxist background. I just put together an article [http://www.afraser.com/beyond_an_ideal.htm] advocating a similar system to his be adopted by anarchists as at least a first step.

Catch - the green party link pasted earlier in the debate doesn't work for me - I had to add an "index.php" to get it to work, so full link is http://www.libcom.org/thought/approaches/green-party/index.php. The Scottish Green Party appears to me to be _less_ libertarian socialist than the Green Party of England and Wales, from that description.

Andrew.

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Volin
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Jul 17 2005 00:18

Scottish Green Party..."libertarian socialist"? fluffy middle-class liberals more like. I've heard of their more decentralised government policy but that's about it and it's crap. [The critique of the green party was interesting but I got it from the first link confused]

thaw
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Jul 17 2005 21:42

Good god, I may be mad (due to a really shit experience, but I do have a good job so can't be totally mad, aprt from Tuesdays) ), but it's bloody obvious that many of the posters here (much as I love them) are extreme liberals.

If only i could do a SUMMER SCHOOL and I could learn too.

eek

Ps the greens - really fluffy and often right-wing

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Lazy Riser
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Jul 17 2005 22:32

Hi All

Something really strange has happened to the post I made on this thread on Friday night, it's been replaced with what looks like Catch's reply to my thanks.

I'll put it down to a software error rather than get paranoid about it. I hope no one minds me reposting my thanks, followed by Catchs’ eloquent reply.

Catch, your points are, as usual, excellent.

afraser, hello, I’m glad we see eye to eye on this, I’ll read your article shortly.

thaw, the Greens are indeed fluffy, and that is not good. They’re certainly to the right of the likes of you and I.

Cheers

Chris

Mike Harman
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Jul 17 2005 22:53

oh shit. Sorry! I hit the edit button instead of the quote button and didn't notice. I wish they'd move it somewhere so silly admins can't get confused.

sincere apologies!

Mike Harman
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Jul 17 2005 22:56

ok I'm reposting my reply here, so you can delete it from your post.

sorry again embarrassed

Quote:

If I might be allowed to proffer an opinion on where the piece might be improved, I think the analysis countering the Green’s proposals for democratisation and provisions for personal economic security are a little on the harsh side. I would be inclined to reward their line of reasoning on this, whilst punishing them a little more on their intrinsic misanthropy and middle class bias.

I think I tried to be fairly positive on the Citizen's Income and decentralisation, but it needed to be said that the Greens 1. don't follow their own logic on these points to its conclusion 2. in this instance have taken libertarian socialist ideas and adapted them to a capitalist framework.

I don't agree that the Greens are intrinsically misanthropic. They (and the Green movement in general) have a large misanthropic wing, but Green politics isn't necessarily so. Sorry to bring him up yet again, but Bookchin's early ecological writing (and I have a feeling he said up a proto-green party in the US) is very humanist, and pre-dates much of the Green movement itself.

I know they have a middle class bias, but I'm not sure how to work that into a proper critique of them - simply saying they're middle class doesn't cut it for me - I guess I could find people (like Anita Roddick) who are quite happily to exploit the working class under a green banner. Actually yes, I'll have a dig around and add that in. "Green enemies of the working class!"