Issue one of Voices of Resistance from Occupied London out now

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Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
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Mar 29 2007 08:45

'jasper carrot with gulags' - we need taglines back so bad cry

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Joseph Kay
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Mar 29 2007 08:47

where's that from? because there was never a pre-social human, aside from the other sillyness it's just plain wrong neutral

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Joseph Kay
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Mar 29 2007 09:02

cheers gdid. less flippantly for the benefit of raw/antonymous, seriously there never was a pre-social human, in fact it's a staple of bourgeois ideology (the most literal readings of hobbes and rousseau) that individuals precede society (the robinson crusoe myth of political economy), when in fact they are only made possible by it (cf Marx, Virno).

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Steven.
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Mar 29 2007 09:47
Jack wrote:
I don't remember exactly, but it was roughly along the lines of gangster having posted it here, and every fucking place anyone would listen to him.

yeah he wasn't even pretending to be Dave Douglass then either.

ftony
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Mar 29 2007 10:55
raw wrote:
nastyned wrote:
antonymous wrote:
If you are in London you can get your free paper copy from Freedom (Angel Alley, 84b Whitechapel High Street, E1 7QX) or Housmans (5 Caledonian Road, N1 9DX).

They'd never heard of it in Housmans.

Is it the season for mythical anarcho-publications or what? confused

They will have it by the end of the week and yes they do know about it - depends who you ask. :-0)

yeah in fairness to raw i've heard housmanns aren't the best at communicating to each other.

raw
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Mar 29 2007 11:31
Joseph K. wrote:
antonymous wrote:
armchair revolutionaries

not boycotting off-the-shelf insults then? wink [note irony, afaik you're not into boycott politics] do you actually know what the posters on this thread do outside of libcom? nevermind ...

raw wrote:
Its the first issue - print run 500 - distributed for free. It will develop - thats the idea.

raw wrote:
There is nothing wrong with occupied london.

confused perfection will develop?

raw wrote:
critiques on my article for occupied london are welcomed

i like the fact you're stressing social centres are a developing project as opposed to the solution, stressing the importance of learning from mistakes etc, i.e. you seem keen to go beyond the lifestylist/subculture criticisms:

Alessio's article wrote:
Almost gone are the days of the pissed up punk drinking special brew whilst his/her stereotyped dreadlocked brethren roles another joint. In come mother and baby groups, packed out cinemas, good quality food, well organised concerts and political mobilisations. This consistency becomes easier as more people become involved, not looking for a subculture to indulge in, but a place of social interaction that presents and communicates ideas.

especially if your audience is anarchists/activists etc who have generally been the target of this critique, that seems an important thing to say 'from within.' however, a couple of bits are a bit worrying ...

Alessio's article wrote:
To many, social centres become a first “port of call” - their first interaction with ordinary people

could just be factual i suppose, in which case the implicit criticism of ghettoisation is welcome and phrased without reading as an attack by the anarcho-debutants, but ...

Alessio's article wrote:
Interaction with anarchists becomes normalised and barriers fall.

... does seem to suggest a separation between full time anarchists and 'ordinary people,' where all the SI's criticisms of 'the militant' etc apply. i mean it's not that i don't think anarchist politics are somewhat peculiar and minoritarian, but that there seems to be an implicit view that change results from 'ordinary people' encountering 'anarchists' and becoming converted somehow, that 'they' need to become more like 'us.' i mean obviously i don't oppose anarchist propaganda, but i think this implies a somewhat idealist notion that a change of ideology the motor of social change. apologies if i'm reading that into it.

on the rest of it, it sounds like you've been reading your Virno wink and the general tone is quite inward-looking and self-referential (though if that's the intended audience that's no more a criticism than saying the FT seems written for stockbrokers). "ideology is dead" - have you met the ICC, or is that a dig at class struggle? tongue

Thanks for th comments. I'm not sure what you mean by a "full time anarchist"? I'm opposed to the state and capital 24 hours a day isn't everyone here? Also to expand what i said regarding the barriers between anarchists and non-anarchists, is that there is a barrier whether real or imagined and this is related to confidence. We may all see ourselves as "ordinary" people, which we are, but our activity becomes extraordinary and therefore this can produce a sense of seperation. this has been in my view a common feature and something which has been discussed at length. Within the social centres I've been involved with there has been a large number of non-anarchists being invovled (i.e. the Vortex) and because we were all part of the same activity and that activity became normalised through the fact that it wasn't just anarchist doing it. The barrier between what we do (I crudely label that 'anarchists') and what 'ordinary' people do are the same and therefore the seperation was much much less.

The article and the magazine as a whole (I was not involved in its production BTW) relies on the reader having some familiarity(either through interest or prior knowledge) of the subject matter. Hence, self-referential -for sure IMHO, whats wrong with that. Its aim is to produce theory, analysis, critique and strategy. The comments posted here are all part and parcel of it, if people like to submit articles for the next issue and respond (like mature adults and not small children) then I'm the editors will be up for it.

Just to note, this is the first issue. I did say there was nothing wrong with occupied london, thats not to say that it will not develop as time goes. Though this is more on the authors of the articles and contributors also developing. I think it is an excellent initiative and one which I intend to write for in the future. It's so easy to pigeon hole something before it gets a chance to get of the ground and the comments which attack(quite unneccesarily) should be taken with a pinch of suspicion. I sometimes think that people prefer nothing to happen at all if it is not in agreement with their own, often dated, politics.

Ales

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Joseph Kay
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Mar 29 2007 11:41

yeah i only oppose capital 9-5, the state on weekends and patriarchy the first wednesday of every month. what i meant was you seemed to premise separate, specialist 'anarchists' whose role is to convert the 'normals', but that doesn't seem to be what you meant, since you're talking about common activity negating such separation.

raw
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Mar 29 2007 11:53
Joseph K. wrote:
yeah i only oppose capital 9-5, the state on weekends and patriarchy the first wednesday of every month. what i meant was you seemed to premise separate, specialist 'anarchists' whose role is to convert the 'normals', but that doesn't seem to be what you meant, since you're talking about common activity negating such separation.

Exactly

raw
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Mar 29 2007 12:49
guydebordisdead wrote:
Can we get some of these in Dublin please?

yep I'll send 'em to Sovietpop's house this weekend.

raw

antonymous
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Mar 29 2007 15:02

you don't have to wait -the answer's there wink

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Steven.
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Mar 29 2007 15:31

I went out for lunch today. Kicked a squirrel's face off black bloc black star circle A

antonymous
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Mar 29 2007 15:54

good to see you leave the comfort of your PC for whatever reason. The journal works! smile

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Joseph Kay
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Mar 29 2007 15:54

RESIST!

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Steven.
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Mar 29 2007 16:03
antonymous wrote:
good to see you leave the comfort of your PC for whatever reason. The journal works! :-)

No, I get a lunch break, and a 7 hour working day after which I leave. Thanks to decades of collective workers' organisation and direct action.

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Steven.
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Mar 29 2007 16:04
revol68 wrote:
John. wrote:
I went out for lunch today. Kicked a squirrel's face off black bloc black star circle A

yeah and i shat on it's grave!

Right on it!

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Steven.
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Mar 29 2007 16:11

not well mate, not well. still you could practice the turny thing and do it at parties/weddings/bar mitzvahs/etc..

btw you didn't get that my reference wasn't to that, it was to brass eye right? and you were just making a different pomo cultural reference?

Mike Harman
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Mar 29 2007 17:41
raw wrote:
[start cock waving]

Wombles.org.uk gets 4,000 individual hits a day - thats 120,000 a month (if you want graphs I'll send them to you) - not bad for a group which dissolved two years ago.

[end cock waving]

Do you know the difference between hits, page views and visits? Just interested. I suggested a stats/keywords comparison between site admins a while ago to gurrier and joe black, so yeah I'd love to see graphs/google referrals etc. for any site really. We'll be publishing ours (not giving direct access for security/spam reasons, but a decent overview) as soon as we've got a clear month with the new stats software.

Also I've noticed wombles.org.uk has been redesigned and is more regularly updated the past year than when you dissolved a couple of years ago. Is there a new webmaster? Either way it's good to see more people using drupal.

Quote:
Anyway this news mag is called MAYDAY - for Autonomous Class War - excellent material, excellent design.

When's it out?

raw
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Mar 29 2007 18:24
Mike Harman wrote:
raw wrote:
[start cock waving]

Wombles.org.uk gets 4,000 individual hits a day - thats 120,000 a month (if you want graphs I'll send them to you) - not bad for a group which dissolved two years ago.

[end cock waving]

Do you know the difference between hits, page views and visits? Just interested.

yes I do, I was actually gonna ask you the same question. Every Image on a page gets picked up as a hit, so thats why you see exaggerated stats for some sites. 4,000 individuals page hits NOT including all the image pick-ups as well. We're subscribed to around 70 RSS newsfeeds which helps.

Mike Harman wrote:
I suggested a stats/keywords comparison between site admins a while ago to gurrier and joe black, so yeah I'd love to see graphs/google referrals etc. for any site really. We'll be publishing ours (not giving direct access for security/spam reasons, but a decent overview) as soon as we've got a clear month with the new stats software.

Also I've noticed wombles.org.uk has been redesigned and is more regularly updated the past year than when you dissolved a couple of years ago. Is there a new webmaster? Either way it's good to see more people using drupal.

Same webmaster. for stat info contact him at wombles@hushmail.com

Mike Harman wrote:
raw wrote:
Anyway this news mag is called MAYDAY - for Autonomous Class War - excellent material, excellent design.

When's it out?

Mayday

raw
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Mar 29 2007 18:25

John. tell me what the forum rules are again? It seems you've forgotten them. Stop derailling this thread. If you don't like the magazine then piss off some where else :-0)

Raw

Mike Harman
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Mar 29 2007 20:25
raw wrote:
yes I do, I was actually gonna ask you the same question. Every Image on a page gets picked up as a hit, so thats why you see exaggerated stats for some sites. 4,000 individuals page hits NOT including all the image pick-ups as well.

Not just images, css, javascript, other sites borrowing images, loads of stuff.

OK so 4,000 page views/day then?

Quote:
We're subscribed to around 70 RSS newsfeeds which helps.

Yeah I noticed, including at least one which is only BBC/labourstart rehashes apparently smile

Mike Harman wrote:
Same webmaster. for stat info contact him at wombles@hushmail.com

Cool, if I can get more than two people interested in the idea I will.

Mike Harman wrote:
raw wrote:
Anyway this news mag is called MAYDAY - for Autonomous Class War - excellent material, excellent design.

Mike Harman wrote:
When's it out?

Mayday

Makes sense.

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Mar 30 2007 12:12

Anarkismo is currently running at 35-40k page downloads a day with a peak of 51k this month. But as before we don't routinely collect detailed stats to avoid having our own IP logs that can then be injuncted.

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Jacques Roux
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Mar 30 2007 12:38

Do you own and operate your own server?

Mike Harman
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Mar 30 2007 12:58
JoeBlack2 wrote:
Anarkismo is currently running at 35-40k page downloads a day with a peak of 51k this month. But as before we don't routinely collect detailed stats to avoid having our own IP logs that can then be injuncted.

fwiw we're on about 31-38k/day. Peak of 41k, a bit under 30k at weekends due to our office-boy bootlick audience wink. We've only had proper stats running since 14th/march though, so no idea how representative that is. It's about half CPE period traffic, and a lot up on 18 months ago (like about 200% or more on September 2005) for reference.

What interests me more than pages vs. pages is how people actually get to the site. We can compare page views out of interest, but identifying keywords and and referral/direct request ratios will help us to actually work out how people get to these sites and work out ways to compete with more mainstream sources.

Like I said, now things are working properly I'm going to try to do a monthly summary somewhere, as soon as we've got a full month to work with.

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Mar 30 2007 15:44
rkn wrote:
Do you own and operate your own server?

I presume your pointing our they can go after the hosting company - we are aware of that. The policy is to protect us from action as a result of idiotic posts it is not in itself a protection for idiots, that is beyond our capabilities. It would appear that the FBI in particular has used idiot postings to put anarchist servers in untenable positions as with the case of flag last year.

Incidentally I think even if we owned and operated our own server the information would still be held upstream of us, the best you could probably do is have a htpps but even then it would probably be possible to identify someone from time of posting etc. If people want to make secure posts they really need to do the needed stuff at their end eg a once of use of a busy internet cafe is probably a thousand times more secure than anything we can do.

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Mar 30 2007 16:24

Yeah I'm interested in liability as opposed to security - i don't think anything on the internet is secure.

So are you doing that ...

Quote:
to protect us from action as a result of idiotic posts

on the basis of legal knowledge? Or common sense?

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Mar 30 2007 20:01

Common sense - we can't be compelled to hand over what we don't have

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Jacques Roux
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Apr 1 2007 17:36

I'd always imagined that would give the more reason to blame you.

Mike Harman
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Apr 1 2007 18:16

Would you not have to still hand over access to the server to prove that you don't have the logs? Obviously you'd still not actually give them anything, but the hassle could be just as much.