Libcom Admin Managerialism

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S. Artesian
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Jun 25 2016 16:26
Fleur wrote:
whorephobia is not a word made up for the purpose of this thread.

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=whorephobia

crossposted.

Yeah, but only jerk who thinks "cunt" is acceptable would accuse someone else of being "whore-phobic.

S wrote:
You have shown you've got no idea what you are talking about here so I'm not going to discuss this with you any further.

Good. Keep that in mind if ever the spirit moves you to discuss anything with me, you Stalinoid smear artist.

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Serge Forward
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Jun 25 2016 18:16
Steven. wrote:
Artesian, you are American. In UK English the word "cunt" has no sexist connotations.

That's not true, Steven. It depends where you are geographically in the UK, who you use it with and the way you use it. Some people do get offended though and argue that it's sexist. Either way, to argue that the word "cunt" it always sexist, as S. Artesian seems to be suggesting, would be ridiculous but possibly understandable if he's American. I guess the Spanish use of "coño" would also be seen as sexist.

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Noah Fence
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Jun 25 2016 18:31
Serge Forward wrote:
Steven. wrote:
Artesian, you are American. In UK English the word "cunt" has no sexist connotations.

That's not true, Steven. It depends where you are geographically in the UK, who you use it with and the way you use it. Some people do get offended though and argue that it's sexist. Either way, to argue that the word "cunt" it always sexist, as S. Artesian seems to be suggesting, would be ridiculous but possibly understandable if he's American. I guess the Spanish use of "coño" would also be seen as sexist.

Hey Artesian, you know I'm a fan but I gotta go with Serge on this. I know it's not exactly the same but try using the word 'fanny' around my daughters and you'll get told to fuck off pretty sharpish where as you might refer to someone sitting on their fanny or keep your weed and your copy of the Communist Manifesto in your fanny pack which to me sounds like a slang term for a sanitary towel.

petey
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Jun 25 2016 20:52
boozemonarchy wrote:
The fuck is with that authoritarian penguin always jumping down my throat?

i LURV the penguin, you bourgeois motherfucker

cactus9
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Jun 25 2016 21:01

It says something about the problems of communism that a thread about the minutiae of administering this site has grown like wildfire while some other excellent threads inch their way towards a page.

My sides smile

cactus9
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Jun 25 2016 21:03

Cunt is seen as a deeply misogynistic insult by most people fyi.

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jef costello
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Jun 25 2016 21:05
Serge Forward wrote:
Steven. wrote:
Artesian, you are American. In UK English the word "cunt" has no sexist connotations.

That's not true, Steven. It depends where you are geographically in the UK, who you use it with and the way you use it. Some people do get offended though and argue that it's sexist. Either way, to argue that the word "cunt" it always sexist, as S. Artesian seems to be suggesting, would be ridiculous but possibly understandable if he's American. I guess the Spanish use of "coño" would also be seen as sexist.

I'm not sure I entirely agree, but I have noticed that when Americans use the word cunt it does seem to be used in a more aggressive and misogynistic way whereas in Englsih while it's still,I think, at the top of the offensiveness index it's not necessarily used in a sexist way. That said I do try to avoid using it out of politeness because a comrade pulled me up on it and after defending my right to say it etc etc I realised that actually it was more about the fact that I had offended someone. I also think the use of it as a term of endearment comes from the rudeness. You can call a mate a cunt because it's a sign that you get on well enough that you can use the word without offence.
Actually I think we've already had a thread about this.

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Noah Fence
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Jun 25 2016 21:29

Yes we have: Dancing Emma gate.

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jef costello
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Jun 25 2016 21:30
cactus9 wrote:
It says something about the problems of communism that a thread about the minutiae of administering this site has grown like wildfire while some other excellent threads inch their way towards a page.

My sides :-)

That isn't unusual. There just don't seem to be as many good posters as before and they post sparingly. But then most forums for discussion (online or not) spend a lot of time like that or wasting time in other ways.

cactus9
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Jun 25 2016 21:37
jef costello wrote:
cactus9 wrote:
It says something about the problems of communism that a thread about the minutiae of administering this site has grown like wildfire while some other excellent threads inch their way towards a page.

My sides :-)

That isn't unusual. There just don't seem to be as many good posters as before and they post sparingly. But then most forums for discussion (online or not) spend a lot of time like that or wasting time in other ways.

I know, I'm making the point that hasn't history shown that the big ideas of communism rapidly get swamped in practise by the tedious task of organisation. That's the main reason why I'm not actually a communist despite having a great deal of respect for those who are, I actually believe in the invisible hand of the market.

I might start a thread about this.

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Khawaga
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Jun 25 2016 21:38

My position on 'cunt' is the same as Jef's Having lived in the UK and had friends who used the word liberally and in a rainbow of meanings, I get UK posters' reaction to this. But when I moved to North America, I quickly (well actually, quite slowly) that my use of the word made ppl uncomfortable. Hence, I stopped using it, and many other gendered cuss words. Now, the point of this is really about a difference of culture. And Libcom's problem is that it is an international site with folks posting from all over the world. What I don't get is why British culture should trump everything else. If it's not allowed to use sexist slurs, the definition of what such a slur is should be international and not based on what UK posters' think.

Hence, I get Artesian's anger at the admins for leaving it up. But I do get why factvalue 's post was edited as well. What I don't get is the lack of consistency. An international reader will likely take offense to the use of both whore and cunt....

S. Artesian
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Jun 25 2016 21:52

You don't mind do you, all or one, if I don't buy a word you say, since I've talked with a few (only a few, maybe there are millions who agree with Ed, Steven) British women who, like their US counterparts find the word incredibly, and gender-specifically, offensive?

Next you'll be telling me how in Hispanic culture, the terms "culo" and "Coño" aren't really demeaning, and demeaning based on likening and reducing and objectifying a person into a single part of female anatomy, but are words of friendship, and good old fashioned camaraderie.

And if you do mind-- too fucking bad. You simply have no idea what you are talking about. You're right in the frame with "Some of my best friends are N*****s

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Serge Forward
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Jun 25 2016 21:55

Are you for fucking real?

S. Artesian
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Jun 25 2016 21:56
Noah Fence wrote:
Serge Forward wrote:
Steven. wrote:
Artesian, you are American. In UK English the word "cunt" has no sexist connotations.

That's not true, Steven. It depends where you are geographically in the UK, who you use it with and the way you use it. Some people do get offended though and argue that it's sexist. Either way, to argue that the word "cunt" it always sexist, as S. Artesian seems to be suggesting, would be ridiculous but possibly understandable if he's American. I guess the Spanish use of "coño" would also be seen as sexist.

Hey Artesian, you know I'm a fan but I gotta go with Serge on this. I know it's not exactly the same but try using the word 'fanny' around my daughters and you'll get told to fuck off pretty sharpish where as you might refer to someone sitting on their fanny or keep your weed and your copy of the Communist Manifesto in your fanny pack which to me sounds like a slang term for a sanitary towel.

Not the same. Using the word cunt is demeaning a person by objectifying that person into a single part of female, and only, female anatomy. If that isn't sexist, exploitative, abusive to women, then nothing is.

S. Artesian
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Jun 25 2016 21:57
Serge Forward wrote:
Are you for fucking real?

Serious as a fucking heart attack Jack.

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Noah Fence
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Jun 25 2016 22:24

Do you know what fanny means in the uk?

S. Artesian
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Jun 25 2016 22:41

Fanny means in the UK--female genitals; in the US it means buttocks. I've never run across any British males using the term "fanny" in the fashion that "cunt" is used. Consequently, I have to conclude that difference is the specific element of demeaning a person by identifying him/her contemptuously with a disparaging term for female genitals. The OED describes "cunt" as a coarse term. It does not describe "fanny" as being a "coarse" or crude term.

radicalgraffiti
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Jun 25 2016 23:05
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Chilli Sauce
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Jun 26 2016 00:10
S. Artesian wrote:
Although, to me the whole thing was made worthwhile by your creation of the term "whore-phobic." Overwhelming fear of whores. Who else could have thought that one up?

Haven't finished reading the thread, so forgive me if this has already been addressed, but "homophobic" - as I've pointed out to my right-wing relatives - doesn't mean fear of homosexuals. It means, dislike and hatred of homosexuals and is rightly used when calling people out for using language this is disparaging toward LGBT people.

I mean, do you really think Steven meant it in the sense of "fear" of sex workers? Or are you just playing - what, at this point, has become pretty predictable - semantics?

S. Artesian
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Jun 26 2016 00:24

Not to put too fine a point on it, but "phobic" is derived from -phobia, as in OED definition: phobic, adjective, pertaining to characterized by or symptomatic of a phobia.... and phobia,

noun, latin, fear, (a) horror, (an) aversion: esp an abnormal and irrational fear or dread aroused by a particular object oar circumstance.

Now I'm sure accurate and precise use of language in accordance with the accepted and standard definitions of words is just so much "semantics" to you; but that's because you're basically ignorant of what "semantics" means-- which is relating to the connotation of words. I'm not arguing about the connotations of whore-phobic. I'm pointing out that there's no basis for S. applying that word to what FV wrote-- that use of "whore-phobic" to describe fv's citation is a gross misapplication of the word as nothing fv wrote indicates an irrational fear, or an abnormal dread of whores.

And yeah, homophobic does mean exactly that-- an abnormal or irrational fear or dread of homosexuals which is at the root of the irrational and overwhelming hatred. For Fuck's Sake.

Kerist-- if you're going to play in the sandbox, bring your fucking A game, would you please Chilli? Right now you're a bit of a pinata.

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Fall Back
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Jun 26 2016 00:42
S. Artesian wrote:
All women have "cunts" but stupid or unpleasant people are called cunts-- right, there's not a bit of sexism.

This is transphobic bullshit.

Fleur
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Jun 26 2016 01:09

Ffs, everyone here knows that in this context -phobic means hate. Islamophobic, transphobic, homophobic, whorephobic. Nobody can in any kind of good faith argue it has anything to do with fear. Who gives a fuck what the root of the word once was, we all know what it means now. Stop being fucking ridiculous just because it's a term you were not familiar with. The fact that you're not familiar with it is just an indication that you're not familiar with any contemporary discussion in gender politics.

Homophobia does not mean an irrational dread of LGBTQ people. That's just a mealy mouthed excuse for it.

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Chilli Sauce
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Jun 26 2016 02:59
Semantic Artesian wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but "phobic" is derived from -phobia, as in OED definition: phobic, adjective, pertaining to characterized by or symptomatic of a phobia.... and phobia,

noun, latin, fear, (a) horror, (an) aversion: esp an abnormal and irrational fear or dread aroused by a particular object oar circumstance.

Now I'm sure accurate and precise use of language in accordance with the accepted and standard definitions of words is just so much "semantics" to you; but that's because you're basically ignorant of what "semantics" means-- which is relating to the connotation of words

I think you'll ignoring the contemporary usage of words in favor their etymological history is an example par excellence of playing semantics.

Quote:
And yeah, homophobic does mean exactly that-- an abnormal or irrational fear or dread of homosexuals which is at the root of the irrational and overwhelming hatred.

Just for the record here, are you arguing that homophobia has its roots in psychology? Because, I've always understood homophobia to have fundamentally social roots in everything from religion to patriarchy to the assumed nuclear family structure.

I'm sure there's some individual fear in there as well, but I'd expect most radicals to have an analysis the goes beyond pathologizing systems of oppression.

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commieprincess
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Jun 26 2016 03:06

I think someone has already mentioned this, but all words exist within a context. FV has a history of saying weird, offensive and sometimes sexist bollocks. So when they make a comment about a 'sordid whore', it's pretty reasonable for the admins to unpublish it. Again, context being crucial, no one gives a shit if it's an ever so witty and cleverly used obscure quote. It comes across as offensive, weird bullshit.

S Artisan, Maybe you really do feel passionate about the word 'cunt' but it's easier to believe that you're just using it as an excuse to score points against someone you have a beef with. I might be entirely misreading the situation, but it comes across like that.

Personally, I'm a woman and from the uk and in no way find it sexist - unless it's used with the intention of being sexist, which usually only happens in the USA.

S. Artesian
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Jun 26 2016 03:15

You can think whatever you want, but you clearly don't know what the fuck you are talking about in using the terms you use.

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Jun 26 2016 03:19
S. Artesian wrote:
You can think whatever you want, but you clearly don't know what the fuck you are talking about in using the terms you use.

???

This coming from the guy who has never heard the term 'whorephobic'?

S. Artesian
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Jun 26 2016 03:26

That in response to a clown who completely misused the term to characterize a participant's comment that had nothing to do with either irrational hatred, or fear, of whores.

A clown who interposed himself without reason, with no information about the circumstances at hand, and then complained about having to make an inquiry, and then threatened fv with banning for "wasting time."

A clown who thinks reference to the "minstrel blood" of the "sordid whore" is abusive, but "cunt" is an abuse-free word........

What a circus of bozos.

Fleur
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Jun 26 2016 03:29

Yeah, I agree with what CP said. I'm a British woman living in N America. The usage is different. I pretty much don't use the word over here because it has a different context. I have no problem with using it in the UK and with other British people and it seems like a perfectly reasonable description of Len McCluskey to me.

That said, seeing as it causes such a problem to American posters, maybe it would be a sensible idea to scale back it's usage here, unless people really enjoy having really long winded discussions on the subject.

Fleur
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Jun 26 2016 03:42

Oh honestly, I lost interest in the endless dreary waffle of the thread this thread is referring to but anyone who feels the quoting an obscure alchemist talking about the minstrel blood of the sordid whore in a discussion about antisemitism ought to be called out on the grounds of being pretentious alone.

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Noah Fence
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Jun 26 2016 03:42

Just woke up to find the last 10 or so posts on here. LMAO, fucking priceless.