This marking up/down crap you still allow for posts...

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Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
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May 10 2016 01:27
Noah Fence wrote:
Auld-bod wrote:
Noah, I'm sure all is now forgiven. How is that bump on your head?

I don't think it was really the knock on the head, it's just coz I'm a dumbass. The head is fine but my leg is sore and my right shoulder and arm are fucked. You know you're old when you fall over and feel unsure as to whether or not you can get up again!

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May 10 2016 05:13
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This is come up before and, man, if we think there's beef now, I can't even imagine how nasty things could get if people saw (or at least perceived) a pattern of the same person consistently downing their posts.

Oh man, that sounds like a blast. Come on admins, get this shit on. For one thing, I rarely upvote anyone and I NEVER downvote anyone apart from my fellow downvote fans. I could just sit back and enjoy the action.

I'll watch the vid in the morning Comrade Chilli, I'll disturb my bedfellow if I switch it on now. Yet more injuries will ensue if I do that!

Edit: Ok, I watched it. Is that Noam Chomsky? The dress really suits him.

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May 10 2016 07:35

Spikymike is right. Can we get rid of the anonymity? If yes, that'd be dead good. Can we also have the options available a bit more interesting please. Instead of boring up/down maybe a range of options like "tip top", "all right, I suppose", "nah mate, not having that" and "you've got that all arse sideways"?

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May 10 2016 07:39
Serge Forward wrote:
Spikymike is right. Can we get rid of the anonymity? If yes, that'd be dead good. Can we also have the options available a bit more interesting please. Instead of boring up/down maybe a range of options like "tip top", "all right, I suppose", "nah mate, not having that" and "you've got that all arse sideways"?

And don't forget the very important button 'actually, I wholeheartedly agree but because of something you posted on another thread that really got my goat, I'm gonna downvote you anyway'.
I predict a promising future that particular feature!

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Steven.
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May 10 2016 08:32

Chilli Sauce, as I said, it's not like we are set on this. With the redesign we are thinking about a new way of doing this sort of feedback, so if people have suggestions, or are aware of Drupal modules please let us know. We were thinking about doing something more like Serge Forward suggests, however then Facebook started doing it and we didn't want to look like we were copying them…

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May 10 2016 08:48

Noah and Auld, I can empathise with your condition. I suffered for many years with what doctors diagnosed as fibromyalgia, which they describe as a chronic condition. Over a period of a couple of months I ingested kaneh bosm in cookies (a quarter ounce per batch of eight cookies) and now I have been virtually pain free for six months. I know that people will retort that it is a fact of old age to suffer debilitation but my friend who is normally confined to a wheel chair has reported that under the influence of said plant she 'prances over Parliament Hill like a mountain goat'.

Sorry to lead this discussion off-topic – I just wanted to help.

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May 10 2016 09:08
Steven. wrote:
We were thinking about doing something more like Serge Forward suggests, however then Facebook started doing it…

As a confirmed social media refusenik, the idea that I've suggested something that Facebook has already started doing makes me want to shoot myself in the face.

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May 10 2016 09:12
Serge Forward wrote:
Steven. wrote:
We were thinking about doing something more like Serge Forward suggests, however then Facebook started doing it…

As a confirmed social media refusenik, the idea that I've suggested something that Facebook has already started doing makes me want to shoot myself in the face.

I feel your pain. It is indeed a dreadful position you find yourself in.

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May 15 2016 20:21

You know Sleeper on plenty of occasions other users have taken the time to tell you what specifically they find in your posts to be flawed or problematic, instead of just clicking down and ignoring you.

You don't really seem to appreciate the courtesy. On the contrary you often shift immediately into abrasive if not abusive mode. I don't really see a solution that will make you happy here.

Sleeper
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May 15 2016 20:48

I think removing this childish point scoring system, and you not following me around the forums, would make me happy tonight.

quote=Reddebrek]You know Sleeper on plenty of occasions other users have taken the time to tell you what specifically they find in your posts to be flawed or problematic, instead of just clicking down and ignoring you.

You don't really seem to appreciate the courtesy. On the contrary you often shift immediately into abrasive if not abusive mode. I don't really see a solution that will make you happy here.

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May 15 2016 21:16

Since the official libcom policy is that down votes are only supposed to be used for "flagging up bullying, abusive or rude posts," when it gets used for other reasons it's totally without context. In practice, this function itself constantly gets abused. "Down" means exactly what?

Since contemporary life under capitalism, whether we like it or not, is morphing to be more and more like Facebook, why not just take "if you can't beat them, join them" literally and make this website the libertarian communist version of Facebook and other social media?

But do it with a Nietzschean edge: for posts that conform with what we personally like we can click an icon like this with a label saying GOOD.

For posts that we personally disfavor -- for any reason whatsoever -- we can click an icon like this and have it labeled EVIL.

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May 15 2016 21:17
Hieronymous wrote:

Since contemporary life under capitalism, whether we like it or not, is morphing to be more and more like Facebook, why not just take "if you can't beat them, join them" literally and make this website the libertarian communist version of Facebook and other social media?

basically because libcom isn't social media, it's a website, albeit a website with mostly user generated content

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May 15 2016 21:28
Sleeper wrote:
I think removing this childish point scoring system, and you not following me around the forums, would make me happy tonight.

Thank you for proving my point for me.

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May 15 2016 21:33
Steven. wrote:
Hieronymous wrote:

Since contemporary life under capitalism, whether we like it or not, is morphing to be more and more like Facebook, why not just take "if you can't beat them, join them" literally and make this website the libertarian communist version of Facebook and other social media?

basically because libcom isn't social media, it's a website, albeit a website with mostly user generated content

As a disclaimer, I personally am another of the very few Facebook refuseniks.

As for definitions of social media:

    forms of electronic communication (i.e. websites) through which users create online communities to share information, ideas, messages, and create content

sounds a lot like libcom to me. How is this website not social media?

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May 15 2016 21:35
Hieronymous wrote:

But do it with a Nietzschean edge

Exactly, why not keep this system while making it more lighthearted somehow?
Yay/Nay
GOOD/EVIL
Beans/Poopy
Orgasm/Herpes
Awesome/Stalinism

Whatever

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May 15 2016 21:40
Hieronymous wrote:
Quote:
basically because libcom isn't social media, it's a website, albeit a website with mostly user generated content

As a disclaimer, I personally am another of the very few Facebook refuseniks.

As for definitions of social media:

    forms of electronic communication (i.e. websites) through which users create online communities to share information, ideas, messages, and create content

sounds a lot like libcom to me. How is this website not social media?

well I guess it's semantic really. But if you want to get into it, I guess libcom is a type of website which predates social media in its current form. I guess I would say that social media websites are primarily about the platform, or the medium. Whereas we are about the content, in order to push an idea. So we are more like Wikipedia or Indymedia than Twitter or Facebook.

Sleeper
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May 16 2016 20:55

That goes both ways steven/stephen. And what you are doing will not be forgotten either.

Steven. wrote:
Sleeper wrote:
Perhaps you should read back through what I have said instead of spouting crap you've been told by someone else.

yeah we do remember your posts. Changing your name doesn't make everyone forget. Like Sellafield.

Schmoopie's picture
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May 24 2016 11:16

The down voting system is an excellent tool for the coward and the incapable.

Serge Forward's picture
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May 24 2016 11:25
Schmoopie wrote:
The down voting system is an excellent tool for the coward and the incapable.

Couldn't resist giving that a down vote grin

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May 24 2016 11:38
Schmoopie wrote:
The down voting system is an excellent tool for the coward and the incapable.

Wrong. It is an excellent tool for self affirmation of contrary bastards that revel in the disapproval of others like an overgrown teenage punk rocker. Or to put in another way, bring on the down votes! I love 'em!!!

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the button
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May 24 2016 13:53

I wonder what proportion of up & down votes are caused by people scrolling up and down on mobile phones and tablets.

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Jun 11 2016 19:47

I was going to post Down Presser by Peter Tosh and the Wailers but this one (Beat Down Comrade Man by Junior Byles) jumped off the page:

Still sounds fresh and check the lyrics.

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May 24 2016 20:59
Schmoopie wrote:
The down voting system is an excellent tool for the coward and the incapable.

And that's a bad thing???

syndicalist
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May 24 2016 21:45

Don't like them. I think they add snarkiness and are often used
For popularity purposes

There have been times when I posted simple, pretty straight, non provacative stuff,
and have been downed.

Zeronowhere
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Jun 4 2016 04:03

Down-votes can be something along the lines of, 'I disapprove, but now make up the reasons yourself from what we have said or not so much,' so if you don't co-operate they're not a serious problem in the context. Still, generally speaking they're probably optional at best. The suggestion about using the 'evil' denomination might be decent, but then it might be unclear if it's meant literally or not and this will even further blur the lines as to what exactly it's to mean. It also might be strange image-wise, given that this is not usually a primarily Christian forum, for instance.

Generally, an up-down system can seem to build interest, in a way, but in this it can be highly ambiguous. Twitter, for instance, lacks one in a similar way, but had to make up for this by stressing various zany means of integrating it into the overall social, informal hierarchy of capitalism, which can hence express the discrepancies belonging to this and so on as if it were a negative vote, although of course it is not. This is fairly inane - obviously when people 'like' things on the Internet, they're not trying to pay someone's wages, which is ew. In addition to this, pretending that a lack of attention - where attention generally means promotion or identification of some sort with capital - is itself a negative vote leads to a fairly strange hierarchy based on making up people who disapprove even though nobody can really do that. In that sense, if you just got rid of 'down-votes,' the same dramas may play out through quantities of up-votes, without any interaction being encouraged between them or general response, although Libcom is usually not associated with the same crowds - except Sleeper, who almost everybody follows. In that sense, generally, this sort of drama can easily be allied to the drama associated with ordinary societies of certain kinds which were around this site, and hence allow in ambiguous elements or place a higher value on non-class issues, etc., if played seriously or not damped a bit, but in general such imagery need not be obligatory, but is fairly likely. Still, this kind of thing depends on the overall direction and intent of the forum, and etc.

Finally, 'up' and 'down' votes are generally a form of approval, and if 'down' votes are supposed to have a specialisation not proper to 'up' votes, then there is probably a better way of implementing this. Otherwise, it might also be unclear what their accompanying 'up' votes are for, which means that as implemented their proximity is out of keeping with their apparent asymmetry.

Sleeper wrote:
Perhaps you should read back through what I have said instead of spouting crap you've been told by someone else.
Fleur wrote:
You know what really makes libcom look stupid and outdated? Dismissive posts about women, people of colour and other discriminated-against people.

In general, seems a bit strange that this thread for a space just became about Sleeper and their posting elsewhere, without dealing directly with the issue raised. Evidently, if people have problems with a post, they can just reply to it. Otherwise, it has little relevance to the issue raised, outside of their particular way of framing it, which is still not the question.

Quote:
I love my down votes. Wouldn't trade them from anything. Up votes bore me to tears.

You like people disagreeing with you, and acting contrary to your preferences, generally? Might as well let a bunch of Conservatives and typical Daily Mail commenters on here, then, you'd never see the end of it. That could easily get a bit icky when it comes to what you'd like these people to advocate and do.

Quote:
I think removing this childish point scoring system, and you not following me around the forums, would make me happy tonight.

If you had an account on another forum, you should check if it led to any long jump records being broken somehow while they were on the way there.

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Jun 4 2016 04:40

Zero, with ref to your points about my comments, firstly, to a small degree I'm messing about but I also feel that when it comes to stepping outside certain accepted modes of thought Libcommers can indeed be reactionary assholes exactly like the conservatives you mention. Of course, one can never be sure that you're reading things properly but if you weigh up the comments or lack of them and past history you can come to a judgement of the meaning of the votes. In some cases I would rather get the downvotes because it affirms that I haven't stepped aboard the Good Ship Groupthink.
I believe they are sometimes used as a scoring system in a popularity contest. Some posters get a disproportionate number of upvotes and others a disproportionate number of down. Say something that people don't like and it may not be forgotten. I have a strong feeling that Sleeper is a victim of this.
I like the voting system but to read it in a straightforward way is naive and misleading.

Sleeper
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Jun 11 2016 18:22

It's a form of bullying, childish old school internet bullying, that should be removed from a socially, participant based forward looking website.

If libcom is just for the cultish then stick with it, and who knows the rest of us might hear about a little cult called libcom who all enslaved each other somewhere in london.

smile

Gulai Polye
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Jun 24 2016 17:16

There could be options like this:
- Enemy of the workers (enough votes on this would flag the comment for the admins)
- Disagree politically
- Agree politically
- What you are saying is simply not correct
- What you are saying is correct

cactus9
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Jun 25 2016 20:59

Enemy of the workers smile

factvalue
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Jun 29 2016 22:26
Sleeper wrote:
It's a form of bullying, childish old school internet bullying, that should be removed from a socially, participant based forward looking website.

If libcom is just for the cultish then stick with it, and who knows the rest of us might hear about a little cult called libcom who all enslaved each other somewhere in london.

:)

Your conception is too grave. Try thinking of libcom as sitcom and the voting as canned laughter.