Noah Fence and factvalue

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Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
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Oct 7 2016 16:40

First off, Noah, it's well fucking out of order to discuss publicly what was discussed in PMs. Seriously, that's some fucked up shit.

Second, my PM in no way said it was a shame "we" had been banned. So, to use your own words, you can fuck off. I was glad to see the back of FV and, after this thread, I'm gonna be glad to see the back of you, too.

Third, you think you're being persecuted because you have a take on on anarchism and morality? Please!

Other than that, it's just personal beefs that you've decided were a political witch hunt because popular opinion on the site didn't favor you - which explains your unwillingness to address these issues despite your claim that those are the real reasons for your ban.

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jesuithitsquad
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Oct 7 2016 16:45
Chilli Sauce wrote:
First off, Noah, it's well fucking out of order to discuss publicly what was discussed in PMs. Seriously, that's some fucked up shit.

Second, my PM in no way said it was a shame "we" had been banned. So, to use your own words, you can fuck off. I was glad to see the back of FV and, after this thread, I'm gonna be glad to see the back of you, too.

Third, you think you're being persecuted because you have a take on on anarchism and morality? Please! Other than that, it's just personal beefs that you've decided were a political witch hunt because public opinion on the site didn't favor you - which explains your unwillingness to address these issues despite your claim that those are the real reasons for your ban.

publishing the contents of a private message is a particularly nasty thing to do, with no other purpose than an attempt to embarrass chilli, who made an attempt to be decent to you NF.

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Noah Fence
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Oct 7 2016 17:07

You didn't give the impression that you were seperating FV from your statement that the ban was wrong and yeah, I did something out of order to expose your disengenuous comment about 'all these enlightening emails' which I had said nothing about but you had used assumptions of to belittle my examination of Aufheben. And hey, you know what is also 'well out of fucking order'. Keeping schtum when you think something is wrong just coz it suits you to. No? Well then we have different ideas about what is wrong and right.

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Noah Fence
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Oct 7 2016 17:43
jesuithitsquad wrote:
Chilli Sauce wrote:
First off, Noah, it's well fucking out of order to discuss publicly what was discussed in PMs. Seriously, that's some fucked up shit.

Second, my PM in no way said it was a shame "we" had been banned. So, to use your own words, you can fuck off. I was glad to see the back of FV and, after this thread, I'm gonna be glad to see the back of you, too.

Third, you think you're being persecuted because you have a take on on anarchism and morality? Please! Other than that, it's just personal beefs that you've decided were a political witch hunt because public opinion on the site didn't favor you - which explains your unwillingness to address these issues despite your claim that those are the real reasons for your ban.

publishing the contents of a private message is a particularly nasty thing to do, with no other purpose than an attempt to embarrass chilli, who made an attempt to be decent to you NF.

Oh really, and why would it embarrass chilli for the world to know an opinion which is in no way sensitive or personal?

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jesuithitsquad
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Oct 7 2016 18:21

The hint is in the phrase, Private Message.

I didn't say you did embarrass him; I said you attempted to embarrass him, which is a particularly shitty thing to do to someone. It's even worse that it was someone making an effort to be supportive and nice to you.

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Oct 7 2016 19:00

Well aren't you a marvellous arbiter of proper behaviour. And what about my side of the thing. What about keeping quiet on a wrongdoing, what about assumptions made and published as fact? I guess none of that matters, right? Maybe he was or wasn't embarrassed but certainly I'm embarrassed by the convenient selection of facts that you lot make. I could give several examples from this thread alone.
Oh yeah, supportive? Like keeping quiet about his opinion on my ban?
I know you think I'm being a prick and to some degree you're right but it pales into insignificance compared with some of the shenanigans on this site.

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Chilli Sauce
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Oct 7 2016 19:22

This is gonna be my last post on this thread.

I just want to say that, despite the title, this thread wasn't actually about you in the beginning Noah. The first page was mostly people who, it seemed quite clear to me, were happy to see FV gone but were wishing you a speedy recovery - both in terms of your health and in terms of the salt mines of libcom banning order.

Since you love playing the up/down game, you'll notice that - prior to the end of your ban - the many up votes posts got about when they were about you on personal level or your ban being lifted. Well, my friend, way to fucking squander that goodwill.

I have no doubt you'll continue to dig your heels in and act like a petulant child, but I hope whatever personal friendships you've developed from the site are worth the fact that I don't think any remaining regular posters will be coming to your defense again. I certainly know I won't.

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jesuithitsquad
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Oct 7 2016 20:00
Noah Fence wrote:
Well aren't you a marvellous arbiter of proper behaviour. And what about my side of the thing. What about keeping quiet on a wrongdoing, what about assumptions made and published as fact? I guess none of that matters, right? Maybe he was or wasn't embarrassed but certainly I'm embarrassed by the convenient selection of facts that you lot make. I could give several examples from this thread alone.
Oh yeah, supportive? Like keeping quiet about his opinion on my ban?
I know you think I'm being a prick and to some degree you're right but it pales into insignificance compared with some of the shenanigans on this site.

Anarcho-Ethics in action!

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Oct 7 2016 23:34

So I tried to post on this thread last night but things kept popping up and I never got the chance. In the meantime it feels like every time I look at this thread there are ten new posts, each more personal and bitter than the ones before. I'll have a go at responding but might not do a great job at this point and tbh, given the government are talking about drawing up lists of foreign workers and schoolchildren while racist/xenophobic attacks (as well as general austerity/cuts) are on the rise, the number of fucks I'm giving about this are decreasing rapidly..

Firstly, Noah, as to why you've not been banned yet, I'd say it was a mix of admin disorganisation (what with jobs, kids, real world political activity in an age of descent into barbarism etc etc) and simply reluctance to do it as it seems like you're going through a shitty time at the moment. That said, if you think us banning you would help your emotional well-being then we'll discuss it..

A couple other things: can you refrain from saying posters were "getting it in the arse"? That's a rape analogy and we don't allow that on the site. Secondly, and even tho you prob didn't mean it that way, I thought your comment about 'the anti-semitism stick getting an airing' was out of order. If you replace 'anti-semitism stick' with 'race card' hopefully you'll get the point I'm trying to make..

Ultraviolet said some stuff I wanted to address. FV was not banned for insults/ridicule or anti-semitism but for constant derailing, which you euphemistically call 'going off topic'. The thing about 'going off topic' tho, is that it happens; conversations stray off in different directions, someone makes an assertion based on an idea that itself is controversial, needs discussing in more detail etc etc. That's not what FV did; FV frequently derailed threads either with long, rambly, tangential posts or just sabotaged threads by talking about unrelated stuff. He was warned multiple times on multiple threads about this. After being warned on the Microaggressions thread, he posted a link to a fucking Andy Pandy video. That's not the same as simply 'going off topic'.

Now, in your opinion that was harmless chit-chat and you quite liked it. The problem is not everyone felt the same way; in fact, some people were massively pissed off (hence why we have the original thread, an 'off-topic comments from the original thread' thread and now this thread!). And indeed, look at the thread; utterly dormant. IMO, that's as good an argument as any that the 'chit-chat' was not harmless.

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Oct 8 2016 06:33

Ed - thanks but I don't want or need special treatment, I just want equal treatment for all. I say this to the admins but probably more so to a large number of the regular posters.
As for squandering goodwill, well that's a shame I suppose but it's the least important thing here.
I may not have expressed myself very well and I've been more aggressive than I'd like to be, no more aggressive than one or two others though, but accusations of me swerving things are just plain daft, especially in the light of the number of points and corrections I've made that have been completely ignored.
I'm particularly sorry that me and Chilli have butted heads like this, we've been pretty matey for a number of years now, but I can't let that get in the way of calling out what I see(rightly or wrongly) as iffy behaviour. That's the way cliques are formed and there's no way I'm having part of that.
I don't expect to change the mindset that I have been criticising but it's still worth having this out as I know quite a few people appreciate it and hopefully many more lurkers will see Libcom as a broader thinking place because of it. I guess that sounds kind of pompous but I think it's true.
Finally here's an extract of a PM I sent recently explaining the reason for me getting so emotional about Libcom...

'As people have said. It's just the internet but to me it isn't - after 30 years indentifying as an anarchist yet continually finding holes in my own beliefs I finally knuckled down, learned how to use the Internet and set about finding something that fitted my poorly formed position. After much disappointment and frustration I chanced upon Libcom and after a short struggle with ideas of class etc I found that I finally had a concept that covered everything and made a lot of sense to me. Within a few months I was sold, I changed the way I lived, earned a living, how I treated people and many other things. It was like coming in from the dark for me'

Sike
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Oct 8 2016 07:33
Noah Fence wrote:
'As people have said. It's just the internet but to me it isn't - after 30 years indentifying as an anarchist yet continually finding holes in my own beliefs I finally knuckled down, learned how to use the Internet and set about finding something that fitted my poorly formed position. After much disappointment and frustration I chanced upon Libcom and after a short struggle with ideas of class etc I found that I finally had a concept that covered everything and made a lot of sense to me. Within a few months I was sold, I changed the way I lived, earned a living, how I treated people and many other things. It was like coming in from the dark for me'

NF, if you are so inclined that sounds like a personal account that might be worth putting to paper, so to speak. By which I mean something in the vein of the ‘How were you radicalized?’ series of autobiographical accounts written by anarchists associated with the Recompostion blog. Perhaps not, but I thought that I'd leave it here as a suggestion just in case you might be interested in writing something like that.

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Noah Fence
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Oct 8 2016 08:04
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NF, if you are so inclined that sounds like a personal account that might be worth putting to paper, so to speak. By which I mean something in the vein of the ‘How were you radicalized?’ series of autobiographical accounts written by anarchists associated with the Recompostion blog. Perhaps not, but I thought that I'd leave it here as a suggestion just in case you might be interested in writing something like that.

Well thanks for the invite. How long would you expect it to be? I'm a two finger typist and have another writing project on the go at the moment so, you know, something that could take very little time for many can take ages for me.

Sike
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Oct 8 2016 21:37
Noah Fence wrote:
Well thanks for the invite. How long would you expect it to be? I'm a two finger typist and have another writing project on the go at the moment so, you know, something that could take very little time for many can take ages for me.

Well, although I really like what they do I'm not involved with the Recomposition blog in any way, shape, or form, and my apologies if I left you or anyone else here with that impression. I certainly have no say on what gets posted to either their Libcom blog or their own website. I'm fairly certain though that such an account could be posted as a general article here on Libcom, (now, here's to hoping the Libcom admins don't get too pissed off at me for perhaps overstepping my bounds as a quest to their site, especially after some of my earlier admittedly sophomoric comments on this thread.)

So the proposal that I made to you Noah was really just an informal suggestion on my part and if it is not something that your particularly interested in doing, for whatever reason that may be, then no pressure from me and I can certainly respect whatever you decide.

As for being a two finger typist I can sympathize with you on that account as I suffer from the same deficiency.