Anarchists fighting Anti-cuts protestors in Greece?

Paul Mason's blog was reporting that there's been clashes between PAME troops (Communist Party of Greece*-controlled group of trade unions) who have been trying to keep the big marches disciplined and insurrectionist anarchists who are trying to ratchet up the level of confrontation with police.

It gets complicated as well because there's far-right elements on the streets who aren't always easy to tell apart from the leftists, and a sort of Indignados bunch who have been on the streets for the last few weeks which keeps calling itself "anti-political" (whatever the hell that means), neither of which like either PAME or the anarchists.

*KKE

gypsy there were fights within the protestors, anarchists posting on athens indymedia say it was anarchists against organized far-rightists/nationalists, but some mainstream TV channels used the footage to claim it was "the hooded ones" (demonization of nonpeaceful protestors and especially antiauthoritarians) attacking indignados/citizens, I think this is deliberate bullshit. (On a web page of the far right it says the far-rightists were attacked by 'provocateurs' working for the state.) Also I read a media report today in leftist daily Eleftherotypia that reports an incident where a group of far-rightists shouted "they are secret police" at a group of black-blockers, I guess the point is to make other protestors mistrustful of them. I tend to believe that the claim of the anarchists makes the most sense, but it is also true that there were hooded nonpeaceful protestors who were really undercover police, this photo has been doing the rounds, among others https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/246918_1823738283953_1555119478_31713252_3247528_n.jpg

The situation is mad in Greece I don't know what's going to happen.

The photo in the metro was anarchists fighting a few known members of Golden Dawn - neo nazi group.

that was uploaded in february

Yesterday's midday BBC showed pictures of fighting in front of lines of police which the voiceover said was "anarchists fighting indignatos". One really couldn't tell and the reporter wasn't clear how he knew this.

There were a lot of Greek flags around the demonstration and it would certainly attract the attention of nationalist forces both on the left and right.

But generally the working class doesn't seem to be prepared to pay for the crisis and this could precipitate a further development in the economic crisis across Europe and beyond - not to say a political crisis also.

What's an idignato?

People are calling themselves the "indignants", like the demonstrators in Spain.

The news reporters in the video linked above say it is indignados (aganaktismeni) trying to remove the violent anarchists (and the usual platitudes 'after so many days of peaceful protests it is a shame that these anarchists had to come and ruin it with their violence'), but to my eye a lot of them dont look like 'ordinary peaceful citizens' and could very well be fascists or sympathizers. Anyway is it that important? There were hundreds of thousands of people in the streets from all the political spectrum, this is just a small fight really given how many people were out there. Worse things happen than this at football matches every few weeks all the year round.

here are some links with lots of photos
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1305794
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1305826

and here lots of videos
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1305986

Yeah, cheers dinosavros. It's always hard for us to get a handle on what's going on when there are few translations..

That said, I do kind of think it's important to understand who exactly is fighting there.. I mean, if it's a group of fascists attacking anarchists (as in the past) then it's kind of to be expected (if obviously worrying for the anarchists on the ground there).

But if it actually is leftish/apolitical anti-austerity protesters fighting anarchists then it's a whole other issue. It makes it about anarchists basically becoming isolated from the wider working class and the movement against austerity. Who knows what that'll mean for the anti-austerity protests (maybe they'll move away from street confrontations, for better or worse I don't know) but also who knows what that'll mean for the anarchists themselves.. if any repression they face will be welcomed by other protesters then that puts them in a very vulnerable position (not to mention that it could be part of a slowly encroaching level of repression on the wider movement, most militant first and then everyone else afterwards..)..

I dunno, just a thought.. def good to see the Greeks out on the streets again. Hopefully the Brits will join them on June 30th!

Just to say that anarchists in Greece getting in fights with KKE activists in demonstrations is not a new phenomenon, if that is in fact what was happening.

It was a fight between anarchists and fascists. The leader of a fascist group made an announcement and said that 4 of his members ended up in hospital. Probably there where more from the other groups.

For decades, fascists didn't try to participate in any kind of worker's demos because the best case scenario for them would be some days in the hospital. But the "indigados's movement" in Greece has a considerable patriotic/conservative/right current. They carry Greek flags, shout Hellas-Hellas, and chant the national anthem. They believe that today's politicians are deeply corrupted. I believe that if the capitalists came up with a fresh "clean" political party that would give some of their lost privileges back they would vote for it and leave the streets immediately. So small nationalists/fascists groups show up and participate in the protests saying that they are simple pure patriots. Leftishs who also participate in the "movement" tolerate them and they say that they are just a few people, that maybe they are not fascists but patriots, that they are of no importance and a clash with them would "spoil" the protests and their peaceful character. Most anarchists from Athens don't participate in the protests and those that do also don't take action against them.

Last Wednesday we had a general strike and a march to the Parliament (where indigados gather). Indigados also participated in the protest. So the fascists probably thought that that was their opportunity to finally attend a worker's protest, do their propaganda there and establish their right to attend. So when anarchists arrived in front of the parliament and the clashes with the police began, the fascists first shouted that the anarchists are not welcome and that they are provocateurs and undercover policemen. They attacked the anarchists and very few of the indigagos followed them. Anarchists started beating them up, leftists intervened and the fascists managed to escape (not all of them unharmed).

That is more or less the story. It' s been a while since I wrote my last English text .

Yes, your English is very good - and certainly a lot better than any of our Greek! (On a related note, we have a saying "it's all Greek to me" meaning "I don't understand this at all" - I don't suppose you have a similar phrase about "English"?)

Giannis, this obviously isnt a time for celebration, but you post has really added some weight to an anti- indagado discussion I was having today. It's infuriating even amongst certain leftist that I expect better from that the prevailing attitude is 'oh the indignant, at least they are kicking a fuss'. No, they need to be politically articulated (of course not in a 'party line'!) in to some sort of leftist (hopefully libertarian communist) agenda. The leftists I know have the attitude that at least there is a movement, we should support it, we should be softly, very softly, critical of it etc, etc. They don't see that this movement is at best a non-critical 'citizen' movement, at worst a nascent nationalism......

No, the similar phrase is "It's all Chinese to me"

There is another current in this "movement" that is mainly expressed by the "People' s Assembly of Syntagma Square". This assembly takes place almost every night, is supposed to follow the principles of direct democracy and the participants are mostly leftists/communists and their sympathizers and some anarchists and some of their sympathizers. This assembly has also created some infrastructure on the square, has a few tents and workshops. The assembly has a lot of problems in its goals, its operation and in its actions that are a whole new topic to talk about.

My personal stance towards this assembly is negative. Well I haven't completely decided yet if I should support it or not but I lean towards "not". The point of my comment is to make it clear that the indigados in Athens are not only people like those I wrote about before and misinform the readers.

no no sorry of course not, I didn't mean to come across as saying they are all rightist sympathisers or the movement is worthless, I just think we should be critical of some elements of it.

Could you tell us more on your negative stance to the assembly?

Can I just state that there is a regularly updated blog on the Mute website offering a somewhat 'different' perspective on the people's assemblies from giannis:

http://www.metamute.org/en/news_and_analysis/updates_from_the_greek_squares_and_people_s_assemblies_1

I imagine that I would probably broadly agree with your criticisms - and would addend that in the UK, the assembly fetishists seem to reflect a reversion towards activism, thusly favouring fulltime/unemployed/student/trustie activists and their (lack of) needs. DAILY meetings? Jesus fuck! There are also plenty of points to be made about the openly 'apolitical/anti' stance of the occupations, which allow/encourage the right wing to organise within them. Something that Barrett, Knight and the rest of the fetishists would do well to consider (if we are to assume - for the sake of argument - that they have no hidden agendas )...

That said, I find it depressing that anarchos would 'ignore' it, as you seem to imply. These square occupations are clearly acting as locuses (loci?) - poles of attraction - for folk who are developing anti-cuts/anti-government critiques and it would be much better that they interract with anarchism than Trotskyism, liberalism or the right.

Your argument is mentioned and addressed by the blog. From May 27:

"Been reading reports in indymedia, where anti-authoritarians/anarchists are either extremely sceptical of events or find some hope in them and call on everyone to take part. Their main fear is the presence of far-right nationalists in the demo, but the good news is that nationalists are usually booed down when they turn up to speak, and if any kind of separation is made between Greeks and migrants...There was a call for not having any flags at all, or a new flag if they must."

And from some anarchist fellow, reflections on May 27:

"If the people who participate in the continuous mobilisation of Syntagma could match the level of thought and questioning in that meeting then we would be on the verge of an undefeatable revolution! The ideas heard would put to shame those who snub this movement, who try to make a point by abstaining in the name of self-referential ideological purity. They should blush in shame because what was heard demolished the myth of reactionary apoliticism that they believe dominates this movement."

I am getting the sense that the people in the square reject parties and unions because they are trying to create something new, not borrowing old solutions from history. You fear that right-wing elements will begin to organize from within the crowd? That is a challenge for direct democracy. Perhaps, through the processes of direct democracy, the movement will evolve to meet that challenge.

Though this story seems to have been made up, about 2 weeks later it seems to have become true, at least on a limited scale; check out this very interesting account from June 28th, Syntagma Square:

from Occupied London.

To be honest, "anti-cuts" does not necassarily mean "leftist", let alone anarchist or communist - I've seen plenty of far-right/fascist types that are opposed to the cuts(in the UK). Still, good to see they're being confronted.