DONATE NOW TO HELP UPGRADE LIBCOM.ORG

Anarcho-leftism & the politics of libcom

178 posts / 0 new
Last post
bootsy
Offline
Joined: 30-11-09
Jan 15 2013 22:44

Interesting you should say that Nate because, iirc, many of the nastier comments in that entire saga were in fact made by you.

bastarx
Offline
Joined: 9-03-06
Jan 15 2013 22:49
bootsy wrote:
Interesting you should say that Nate because, iirc, many of the nastier comments in that entire saga were in fact made by you.

Nate has certainly shown on this thread that he's well acquainted with jerkish online behaviour.

ocelot's picture
ocelot
Offline
Joined: 15-11-09
Jan 15 2013 23:19
Rank wrote:
Things may appear pretty ok to the in-group standing closest to JD (another 'jury of mates' a la the SWP?) who seem to lack the sense of the whole incongruity of JD's position vis-a-vis his development of crowd management theory and his activist involvement. 'Non-political', 'non-militant' friends and acquaintances of mine (with no organisational/defensive axe to grind) have regarded this contradictory position of JD (with his feet in both camps) with utter incredulity when I've explained it to them.

Ditto. The idea that using participant research within the activist movement to build crowd management science to improve public order policing efficiency and then write papers and attend policing conferences to impart that to them is anything less than outright scabbing is impossible to explain to third parties. I'm with bootsy's analysis.

I don't think there's much value to the OP though. It reminds me of Deleuze & Guattari's concept of "schizoanalysis" - only in a bad way. i.e. the rambling, obsessional interlinking of disconnected subjects in the delirious affect of the schizophrenic discourse. Also, other than the fact that J.D. is transparently a scab, and the bizarre contortions some people will go to to avoid the obvious, the matter doesn't appear to me to be of that much significance. Certainly not the kind of significance the above text attributes to it, which approaches the conspiratorial "besides the point"-ness of later Sanguinetti, imo.

Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
Offline
Joined: 5-10-07
Jan 15 2013 23:39
Quote:
Things may appear pretty ok to the in-group standing closest to JD (another 'jury of mates' a la the SWP?

Yeah, cause this is an apt comparision.

Seriously, I don't want to speak to the experiences of someone in that situation, but if I saw this allegation being thrown around in relation to some ultra-left bum fight, I'd be fucking livid.

Tools.

roll eyes angry roll eyes

comrades BEWARE
Offline
Joined: 15-01-13
Jan 16 2013 00:04

Fuck the censorship, I need to add to the comrade that posted this thread. Not being a member of $olFed, I believe they are not aware how deeply $olFed is compromised.

The more time i've spent in $olFed, the more i've realised something is afoot. It started with what i thought were light-hearted quips - Chilli Sauce would occasionally joke about how we ought to kill all the poor to get rid of their trade union consciousness. I remember well a report from another member about how they had established a UKIP branch in their workplace to facilitate the end of a wildcat strike and the beginning of negotiations once work was resumed.

What should shock a great deal of posters is that Freedom is affiliated to the Labour Party. I don't know when this occurred for sure but i found an affiliation document in the trench coat pocket of the Chairman of Freedom, along with a copy of Left-wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder and a Christmas card displaying Gerry Healy in a suggestive pose. Not only this, but Joseph Kay - leader of Brighton SF and general secretary of GMB union - has embezzled vast amounts of the organisations funds on a series of expensive hats made from the skin of young factory workers, purchased from the FARC in exchange for $olFed's complicity in dolphin smuggling.

I did for a time hold a minor seat on the secret central committee, but after the seventh 'trial' and shooting of a disobedient student cadre, i could no longer be an agent to the terrifying wrath of Tommy Ascaso, who i once watched personally oversee the 're-education' of an entire local, a crude process involving psychedelics and a car battery (for electric shocks). Comrade Refused has also oppressed a lot of struggles of women. On the minutes for the $olFed meetings i attended where he was present, for contributions from female members he would use a separate pink marker pen.

I fear for my life. As i speak i can already hear sirens, and i say a little anarchy prayer for those who have fought and bled to make this truth known. I can see a man in skinny jeans loading a hand gun and directing the cops up the path, i pray it isn't the depraved Steven. of libcom, here to 'moderate' my posts. Do with this knowledge what you will. The truth must be known, do not stop until it is!

Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
Offline
Joined: 5-10-07
Jan 15 2013 23:44

EDIT: Nevermind, it's a joke and it's fucking hysterical.

Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
Offline
Joined: 5-10-07
Jan 15 2013 23:44

DP.

commieprincess's picture
commieprincess
Offline
Joined: 26-08-07
Jan 15 2013 23:51

I heard that south London solfed dish out hand jobs to police horses.

comrades BEWARE
Offline
Joined: 15-01-13
Jan 15 2013 23:56

$olFed

Buridan
Offline
Joined: 16-01-13
Jan 16 2013 00:17

I can’t believe all this is being aired again. Libcom needs to ban all these freaks who are complaining about JD and his work.

What these people don’t realise is that JD (please do check out his writings and his excellent blog) is making a real attempt to change the behaviour of the police, especially in his work with Chris Stott.

There are three very good reasons for this.

Firstly, if the behaviour of the police in crowd/demonstration situations is moderated then not so many, if any, people will get hurt.

Secondly, if crowds and demonstrators are given more freedom to associate and discuss issues during crowd events then these events may actually escalate. This is a clear and eminently sound motive in JD’s approach.

Thirdly, if the police do actually engage with demonstrators in the ways that JD and Chris Stott encourage then there may actually be some cross fertilisation of ideas. Who is to say that individual police won’t be affected by the arguments of demonstrators if they are put into positions where they have to engage properly with them. This is a different approach to outright repression, and while it does offer a different managing technique, it also creates the situation where individual police may change their minds about things. It is this kind of phenomenon that the revolution will need for it to sustain itself in the initial stages.

Having the courage to attempt to draw members of the police into radical perspectives is no different from talking to munitions workers, or indeed other middle class sectors, such as university workers. Indeed the prevalence of university workers, teachers, journalists and other ‘professionals’ on Libcom (EG the commendable Ramona, Rob Ray and others), and the cross-the-board support for these ‘professions’ on Libcom points clearly to the fact that these sectors are no longer outside the working class. To hold the outdated and misguided notions of class which seem to be being harboured by the anti-JD people just reveals their dinosaur attitudes and utter stupidity.

It is time that these moaning minnies were shut down. If we are really serious about creating a real movement to abolish the existing conditions we need everyone on board - from cleaners to teachers to university professors to shop keepers to the police.

The other point that should be made is that JD and Aufheben and Libcom are all actually DOING SOMETHING – what are all these complainers actually doing? Apart from, as Rob Roy correctly points out, just trying to mess up the real revolutionary work SolFed, Libcom, Aufheben and JD are doing on the ground.

Libcom, it is your site. As the excellent Nate suggests: Take charge.

comrades BEWARE
Offline
Joined: 15-01-13
Jan 16 2013 00:36

ITs too late, steven is here with the Unison executive and some teachers - the worst kind of authoritarian cop scum

Goodbye comrades i will see y:SDA"kjp'fe`fjks/b, asdfjkghjhv,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,akkkjbkkkkkkj

comrades BEWARE
Offline
Joined: 15-01-13
Jan 16 2013 00:34

But before i die, shite reversal of my post is shite

Agent of the International's picture
Agent of the In...
Offline
Joined: 17-08-12
Jan 16 2013 00:53

The biggest question yet to be asked in this forum is: who is this JD? I think we all need an answer to this ( at least I do). I want to know who he is, where he's from, what does he do, why is he so special. I want the Ministry of Truth to interrogate him!

Agent of the International's picture
Agent of the In...
Offline
Joined: 17-08-12
Jan 16 2013 00:53

dp

bootsy
Offline
Joined: 30-11-09
Jan 16 2013 01:19

Having become infested with bizarre troll accounts, as well as regular contributors who seem to take an idiotic pride in their trolling, I will make this my final comment in this thread.

In reply to sabot's question here is what I think should happen:

1. For the individual in question to be held accountable for what they've done.
2. For comrades to understand the potential harm which can result from collaborating in academic studies (even with individuals the think they can trust).
3. For comrades to understand the potential harm which can result from using their experience of street protest and radical political groups as the basis for an academic career.

The problem I have is that on the one hand libcom.org is fast becoming one of the most influential gathering points of oppositional news, discussion and analysis on the internet and yet, on the other hand, it is becoming increasingly difficult to take anything both the libcom & Aufheben groups say seriously when they continue to hide this skeleton in their closet. I worry that, as more and more people begin developing a consciousness of the need to destroy class society, that the incredibly schizophrenic mentality which has lead to this situation in the first place will have a toxic affect on any emerging oppositional movement. I suppose you could say I am somewhere between ocelot and OP on this.

I'm not trying to be prolier-than-thou, as some people want to put it, and I'm not denouncing all academics. However if we are serious about opposing this society then it would seem that, at the very least, some honest reflection on the role of academia and some basic level of commitment to applying those reflections in our daily lives would be a positive course of action for our political camp.

Nate's picture
Nate
Offline
Joined: 16-12-05
Jan 16 2013 06:14
bastarx wrote:
bootsy wrote:
Interesting you should say that Nate because, iirc, many of the nastier comments in that entire saga were in fact made by you.

Nate has certainly shown on this thread that he's well acquainted with jerkish online behaviour.

You caught me. I orchestrated the whole affair because my life lacks other opportunities to be a dick on the internet. That's why I put the dude's real name online to kick off the whole shebang in the first place. I'll own up though, it was kinda fun being rude to some of you folk over this. I'm not proud of that, but I'd be lying if I said otherwise.

Pennoid's picture
Pennoid
Offline
Joined: 18-02-12
Jan 16 2013 06:54

$olFed needs to reprint all it's materials with the updated logo. I know I'd re-buy fighting for ourselves....... "$olFed" hahahah Classic.

Mr. Jolly's picture
Mr. Jolly
Offline
Joined: 28-04-11
Jan 16 2013 07:03
Pennoid wrote:
$olFed needs to reprint all it's materials with the updated logo. I know I'd re-buy fighting for ourselves....... "$olFed" hahahah Classic.

$olfeds new book

"Fighting for ones self, anarcho-individualism and the struggle for survival amongst the sponging filth"

Mr. Jolly's picture
Mr. Jolly
Offline
Joined: 28-04-11
Jan 16 2013 07:08

History repeating itself, SolFed/LibCom on same trajectory as Mussolini? Discuss

Buridan
Offline
Joined: 16-01-13
Jan 16 2013 07:09

I was thinking a bit more about what I had written in my previous post, and I decided to clarify one my points.

In order for the real movement to gather momentum it is, and always has been necessary for a section of society to emerge which has already developed a cohesive world view of its own (this is the definition of the real movement). This world view coalesces into the forming of a competing ideology. This is what we are trying to achieve with all our propaganda work.

This world view has to come from the awareness of the exploited nature of the working class, which means it arises out of that proletarian condition, but this worldview is consolidated and refined by thinkers and intellectuals who often work in the professional sector. This is why all the great proletarian thinkers of the last century have passed through the university. It is why the University is, in fact, the primary location of the class struggle – its heart and its home. The University is, therefore, the place from which all social upheavals of any significance or duration will erupt.

JD and Aufheben, therefore, and most commendably, are doing the hard yards in the central arena of this society. In this they have many respected forebears who similarly worked in and through the University for social change and revolution.

For these reasons it is no longer politic to view academics as middle class. The ruling class has shrunk immeasurably over the last few decades. Most people are now proletarian, no matter what their social status – unless they are actual capitalist owners, like Richard Branson or Rupert Murdoch. For this reason we are right to abandon outdated notions of class and, for this and the reasons above, we are right to support the work that JD is doing. (Also see my other post above.)

Harrison
Offline
Joined: 16-11-10
Jan 16 2013 07:16
Mr. Jolly wrote:
History repeating itself, SolFed/LibCom on same trajectory as Mussolini? Discuss

First as tragedy, then as dolphin smuggling ring.

ocelot's picture
ocelot
Offline
Joined: 15-11-09
Jan 16 2013 09:49

bizarre contortions are bizarre

Arbeiten's picture
Arbeiten
Offline
Joined: 28-01-11
Jan 16 2013 12:13

Honestly Buridan I don't think you are helping anyone's case....

petey
Offline
Joined: 13-10-05
Jan 16 2013 12:27
ocelot wrote:
The idea that using participant research within the activist movement to build crowd management science to improve public order policing efficiency and then write papers and attend policing conferences to impart that to them is anything less than outright scabbing is impossible to explain to third parties. I'm with bootsy's analysis.

I don't think there's much value to the OP though. It reminds me of Deleuze & Guattari's concept of "schizoanalysis" - only in a bad way. i.e. the rambling, obsessional interlinking of disconnected subjects in the delirious affect of the schizophrenic discourse. Also, other than the fact that J.D. is transparently a scab, and the bizarre contortions some people will go to to avoid the obvious, the matter doesn't appear to me to be of that much significance. Certainly not the kind of significance the above text attributes to it

agree completely
1: in my corner of the world, if you put your name on a paper it means you have contributed to the research and agree with the conclusions, if not all the details
2: this JD fellow is working for the cops
3: everyone should just admit this
4: it's not the biggest thing in the world
5: the OP is obsessional

could we get back now to the basic work of talking up the idea of collective action with workmates? thx.

Samotnaf
Offline
Joined: 9-06-09
Jan 16 2013 15:06

I've watched these empty parodies of what I wrote from afar - especially the idea that what I wrote was some conspiracy theory, which it clearly isn't. The aim of your "jokes" being not to change things but to make the sad "joker" feel very clever and very smug. And to rubbish something that obviously does strive to change things .

I have no desire or need to "debate" with those who clearly have become as unthinking and evasively dismissive as the organisers of this society and of those who submit to them. It shows what happens when opposition to ideology gets repressed: you become fatuous and frivolous. About as scintillating as Harry Hill or Jeremy Beadle. The only purpose is to show how loyal you are to a club of mutual back-patters, congratulating yourselves on your brilliant sense of humour and on your unthinking loyalty to the party line. You clearly have no desire to struggle for or against anything other than what has been deemed correct by your clique.

May I suggest that those who maybe have something useful and independent to debate and develop (for example, bootsy and rank, possibly ocelot, Spikey Mike and Khawaga...perhaps others) do so under the full text ("cop-out - the significance of Aufhebengate" ) available on my site...?

Agent of the International's picture
Agent of the In...
Offline
Joined: 17-08-12
Jan 16 2013 17:15

Seriously guys, who is JD? An anarchist who takes part in the academic world? Codename for Noam Chomsky? Undercover cop? Who is this guy???

Anyone of you can at least link me some of his works? And why can't his full name be used?

I need answers comrades; I searched it online and all I find is this: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=JD&oq=.... The most notable being John Deere and a fellow named Juris Doctor.

Spikymike
Offline
Joined: 6-01-07
Jan 16 2013 17:10

The jokers , with perhaps the exception of Buridan, do themselves no favours on this thread.
Samotnaf's text, if overambitious and a little rambling, is non-the-less a genuine effort at examining the problems associated with the often unhealthy relationship between academia and our small pro-revolutionary milieu. To some the linking of this to the specific case of Aufheben and JD may seem obsessive but it is unsurprising given the the concious efforts by others to simply bury any serious consideration of the issues arising out of that case.

Wiggleston's picture
Wiggleston
Offline
Joined: 8-10-12
Jan 16 2013 17:23
Agent of the Fifth International wrote:
Seriously guys, who is JD? An anarchist who takes part in the academic world? Codename for Noam Chomsky? Undercover cop? Who is this guy???

Anyone of you can at least link me some of his works? And why can't his full name be used?
.

Click on the original text link. It has his name. Then if you search it you will find his website/wiki etc

Mr. Jolly's picture
Mr. Jolly
Offline
Joined: 28-04-11
Jan 16 2013 17:39
Spikymike wrote:
The jokers , with perhaps the exception of Buridan, do themselves no favours on this thread.
Samotnaf's text, if overambitious and a little rambling, is non-the-less a genuine effort at examining the problems associated with the often unhealthy relationship between academia and our small pro-revolutionary milieu. To some the linking of this to the specific case of Aufheben and JD may seem obsessive but it is unsurprising given the the concious efforts by others to simply bury any serious consideration of the issues arising out of that case.

My piss taking is about some of the more Ikean part of the OP. I too share at least theoretically some of the concerns about academia and the schizophrenic world some academics operate within. That one can produce radical critique with one hat on but seamlessly don another using often using the same tools author discourses and social policy which is central to the operation of a modern biopolitical state.

no1
Offline
Joined: 3-12-07
Jan 16 2013 17:38
Agent of the Fifth International wrote:
Seriously guys, who is JD? An anarchist who takes part in the academic world? Codename for Noam Chomsky? Undercover cop? Who is this guy???

Anyone of you can at least link me some of his works? And why can't his full name be used?

I need answers comrades; I searched it online and all I find is this: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=JD&oq=.... The most notable being John Deere and a fellow named Juris Doctor.

http://libcom.org/library/response-tptg

Topic locked