ieas for my article on class struggle and hip hop

Yeah... It's a strange one, because the "raping women" thing is normally said in context of a story... But is that justifiable? Just because you claim it to be fiction, and your stage persona an "alter-ego", does that give you the right to offend? I'm of the opinion that art should unite people, and this is clearly divisive.

I find them interesting (like a said, some of the lyrics are clever), but I'm split as to whether I like them or not, really. From what I can gather though, despite sometimes talking about class and religion issues, they seem to be playing up the idea of the "chaos-anarchist", and that can't be helpful to us, or anyone else really.

I think nihilist is better than chaos-anarchist (whatever that is). I have been listening to them for a while. Some of it is ok but I'm not sure whether it weighs out all the homophobia, rape, etc, etc. And I know (or, at least, I think I know) that it is all being deliberate, pushing the art form and everything, but when I'm there listening to it, I still don't like it. Reminds me of Lars Von Trier's Hitler moment...

By "chaos-anarchist", I just meant the mainstream stereotype of anarchism. Didn't know how better to put it...

Yeah, I agree with your assessment about him... But I'm not sure how legit an idea as "pushing the art form" is really anyway. Pushing an art form always seems to be in reaction to the previous art form... It's a very elitist view of Art History (but one that has inspired many - especially today), and it disregards the social needs for art. It portrays art as always inward looking, "art-for-art's-sake", and I don't buy that idea at all.

Saying that though, going back to the topic, it is good to hear new sounds... It hits more. But I don't think that's necessarily pushing the art forward. It's just originality. Not a lot of "leftist" music does that currently, or art in general, in my opinion.

EDIT: I've just watched LVT's "Hitler moment" you were referring to. Talk about digging yourself into a hole, bloody hell.

well, what i meant by the Von Trier moment is it was deliberate (or at least, I believe it was). For 'shock value'. Also when i said 'pushing the art form' I agree with you. But I also think this whole pushing things for shock value has lost its edge. This is all art (in the widest sense) has been doing for about 50 years now. Nazi art, defamation art, rape art, sacrilegious art. It has become boring. In a society which arguable is a lot less conservative than the 1950s, it has just become banal. I'm suprised people still buy it to be honest.

Your right, explicitly leftist music is usually a bit shit. The video i posted a few posts ago (Dalek) is pretty good at that sort of stuff.

I think a band that do 'angry' hip hop better than Tyler etc, is this band Death Grips,

For me this just encompasses what I imagine inner city frustration better than someone talking about rape ever could....

I agree with those saying look at the class features of rap that is not explicitly political, loads of rappers do this. I think Eminem's Slim Shady lp in particular is very good for this, not to mention being one of the best hop hop albums ever IMO.

lyrics to rock bottom for example (unfortunately some sexism there as well)

A-yo!
This song is dedicated to all the happy people
All the happy people who have real nice lives
And who have no idea whats it like to be broke as fuck

[Verse One:]
I feel like I'm walking a tight rope, without a circus net
I'm popping percocets, I'm a nervous wreck
I deserve respect; but I work a sweat for this worthless check
Bout to burst this tech, at somebody to reverse this debt
Minimum wage got my adrenaline caged
Full of venom and rage
Especially when I'm engaged
And my daughter's down to her last diaper
That's got my ass hyper
I pray that god answers, maybe I'll ask nicer
Watching ballers while they flossing in their pathfinders
These overnight stars becoming autograph signers
We all long to blow up and leave the past behind us
Along with the small fry's and average half pinters
While player haters turn bitch like they have vaginas
Cause we see them dollar signs and let the cash blind us
Money will brainwash you and leave your ass mindless
Snakes slither in the grass spineless

[Chorus (x2):]
That's Rock Bottom
When this life makes you mad enough to kill
That's Rock Bottom
When you want something bad enough to steal
That's Rock Bottom
When you feel you have had it up to here
Cause you mad enough to scream but you sad enough to tear

[Verse Two:]
My life is full of empty promises
And broken dreams
I'm hoping things will look up
But there ain't no job openings
I feel discouraged hungry and malnourished
Living in this house with no furnace, unfurnished
And I'm sick of working dead end jobs with lame pay
And I'm tired of being hired and fired the same day
But fuck it, if you know the rules to the game play
Cause when we die we know were all going the same way
It's cool to be player, but it sucks to be the fan
When all you need is bucks to be the man
Plus a luxury sedan
Too comfortable and roomy in a six
They threw me in the mix
With all these gloomy lunatics
Walk around depressed
And smoke a pound of ses a day
And yesterday went by so quick it seems like it was just today
My daughter wants to throw the ball but I'm too stressed to play
Live half my life and throw the rest away

[Chorus]

There's people that love me and people that hate me
But it's the evil that made me this backstabbing, deceitful, and shady
I want the money, the women, the fortune, and the fame
That Means I'll end up burning in hell scorching in flames
That means I'm stealing your checkbook and forging your name
Lifetime bliss for eternal torture and pain
Right now I feel like just hit the rock bottom
I got problems now everybody on my blocks got 'em
I'm screaming like those two cops when 2pac shot 'em
Holding two glocks, I hope your doors got new locks on 'em
My daughter's feet ain't got no shoes or sock's on 'em
And them rings you wearing look like they got a few rocks on 'em
And while you flaunting them I could be taking them to shops to pawn them
I got a couple of rings and a brand new watch you want 'em?
Cause I never went gold of one song
I'm running up on someone's lawns with guns drawn

[Chorus]

there's not a lot of explicitly political hip-hop about but I think a huge amount of it is definitely political in terms of the typical topics involved, e.g. class, work, welfare, crime, gangs, drugs, the police etc.

And let's not forget hip-hop was born and grew in the poorest neighbourhoods of a bankrupt New York City.

There's also a massively cut-throat, competitive nature about hip-hop too. And the focus on money and objects of status has also been a huge part of hip-hop from the beginning, and has definitely accelerated in the past 10-15 years. Not to mention the extreme violence, misogyny and homophobia.

I think it's really interesting to look at in detail, actually. I can see a lot of parallels between hip-hop and punk, particularly in their DIY nature and disregard for formal music theory and rules, and general making do

You do know Skinnyman went to prison recently for assaulting a woman, don't you?

Jehst also has a few lines like "i'm the communist plot...", "I see red, my mindsets marxist"

I'm sure Chester P is some kind of commie too

Death Grips is some next shit.

Yeah, I personally enjoy some anti-social hip hop, like Big L. But that doesn't mean they're on our side politically, if that makes sense. And yeah, hip hop has a lot of contradictions. There is a lot of talk about poverty and injustice, but also a lot of stuff about "making it", materialism, etc. But some rappers have started to challenge the excessive materialism, even fuckers like Kanye:

There is kind of a love-hate relationship with wealth, like when Styles P talks about money being the root of all evil.

Digable Planets don't have any songs about class struggle, but on their song 'Dog It' they rhyme 'proletariat' with 'cadillac starin' it'. They deserve a mention just for that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaj6ywdfGNw

yeah, i would rather listen to good hip-hop than something explicity anarchist that isn't that great