Interesting but maybe not relevant observation

21 posts / 0 new
Last post
Birthday Pony's picture
Birthday Pony
Offline
Joined: 11-12-11
Mar 2 2012 20:25
Interesting but maybe not relevant observation

Don't know if this belongs here or libcommunity, as it could go either way (serious or not serious). Admins, feel free to move the thread if you so choose.

Anyways, I've noticed the standing assumption here is that posters are male unless otherwise noted. I find this interesting because I make a point of never identifying myself by gender or race on forums. The results:

ALL: doesn't care. Lots of gender-neutral pronouns flyin around there. Whether or not individual posters identify me as male, female, or trans doesn't seem to seep into discussion.

Mises: ancaps insist on me being female and use it as a way to insult me. Definitely the most reactionary in this regard.

Libcom: Just thinks I'm male. Only ever entered discussion with pronouns or a few accusations of machisimo on the 'Attacked on the street' thread.

After lurking some old threads I've picked up that Libcom has a reputation of being macho. How true, untrue, or irrelevant this is isn't something I necessarily know. So I thought I'd share my little personal online fun with you to see if it can help what I assume is a continual process of addressing and combating this reputation.

jef costello's picture
jef costello
Offline
Joined: 9-02-06
Mar 3 2012 07:44

are ALL and mises other websites, I'm not sure I understand.
I think people often do assume that someone is male until they find out otherwise, I know I do. Not sure how much it affect my pronoun usage though, will have to have a think about that.

revol68's picture
revol68
Offline
Joined: 23-02-04
Mar 3 2012 07:52

I'd have guessed female from the avatar.

Juan Conatz's picture
Juan Conatz
Offline
Joined: 29-04-08
Mar 3 2012 08:51

I'll admit I assumed you were male, but I also assumed we have met or I know who you are, so that might be a different topic all together haha.

I get your point though, how we assume online identities do to character that we automatically correspond to gender. And I probably do this more on libcom because I don't personally know as many of the posters and have been on here or at least lurked when it had a reputation. As opposed to ABC, where I personally know many of the posters or know some of the groups people are from are pretty even on gender demographics or even are majority female.

radicalgraffiti
Offline
Joined: 4-11-07
Mar 3 2012 17:44

i don't know if i think about people on the internet in the same way as people in real life. i generality will refer to people as there name of they, unless i know they are male of female.

Railyon's picture
Railyon
Offline
Joined: 4-11-11
Mar 3 2012 18:30

I call residues of patriarchal society. tongue

Gender doesn't influence me at all how I treat people, but yeah... I noticed myself that I have a pretty gender-biased way of writing, especially in my mother tongue. Then again, language doesn't make that exactly easy because there are very few absolutely gender-neutral ways of addressing or talking about someone, they/their maybe but beyond that, I don't know.

This may sound anti-PC, but nearly all the "gender PC"ed words sound really weird and awkward to me. German is especially bad in that regard. Tries to solve the problem by introducing words that sound like shit and if you use them, absolutely everyone knows you're a lefty...

Cooked's picture
Cooked
Offline
Joined: 6-04-10
Mar 3 2012 19:01
Railyon wrote:
Gender doesn't influence me at all how I treat people

^If true that would be astonishingly impressive.

Birthday Pony's picture
Birthday Pony
Offline
Joined: 11-12-11
Mar 3 2012 20:46
Juan Conatz wrote:
I'll admit I assumed you were male, but I also assumed we have met or I know who you are, so that might be a different topic all together haha.

You may have met me. But that is a different topic.

This board is definitely one of the ones that is more grounded in reality rather than internet bizarro world, and I've actually found it difficult keeping up with my internet anti-identity.

Revol68, I do the same thing pretty often as well. In fact, I assumed action_now was female because of their avatar, but I guess it was some rapper.

@Jef, ALL and Mises are two other boards. Mises is home to bloated men talking down to leftists and the ALL board is like an abandoned building that once housed an attempted Anarchist and (US) Libertarian synthesis group that's currently being squatted by anarchists.

Railyon's picture
Railyon
Offline
Joined: 4-11-11
Mar 3 2012 21:30
Cooked wrote:
Railyon wrote:
Gender doesn't influence me at all how I treat people

^If true that would be astonishingly impressive.

Well, I mean in the context of the internet of course (where anonymity makes it easier). Real life is a bit different, I try my hardest but I'm just too NEET for that to work all the time (in the sense that I tend to shy away from women). FWIW I don't see every woman as potential "mate" (on the contrary, actually) so that helps a lot.

the croydonian anarchist's picture
the croydonian ...
Offline
Joined: 26-05-11
Mar 4 2012 20:24
Birthday Pony wrote:
In fact, I assumed action_now was female because of their avatar, but I guess it was some rapper.

I find this a bit strange seeing as we established that the avatar was blatantly sexual and hence in appropriate. Such pictures tend to be quite demeaning of women, so I am surprised you thought action_now, who chose to have that avatar, would be female, especially because I would imagine females on here are very likely to be feminists who oppose exactly that sort of deamening imagery.

the croydonian anarchist's picture
the croydonian ...
Offline
Joined: 26-05-11
Mar 4 2012 20:28

There is a danger of this thread descending into "guess if I am a female or male" sort of thing, but fuck it, I can't help but wonder what gender you think I am. I would imagine you would assume me to be male but I don't know if thats just a basic automatic assumption most will have like the OP says or because of how I write. I have been guilty of some pretty bad, heavily regretted, sexist posts on the slutwalk thread but that could still come from a female technically.

P.S Steven is not allowed to answer because he added me on facebook recently and would know tongue

revol68's picture
revol68
Offline
Joined: 23-02-04
Mar 4 2012 20:38
the croydonian anarchist wrote:
Birthday Pony wrote:
In fact, I assumed action_now was female because of their avatar, but I guess it was some rapper.

I find this a bit strange seeing as we established that the avatar was blatantly sexual and hence in appropriate. Such pictures tend to be quite demeaning of women, so I am surprised you thought action_now, who chose to have that avatar, would be female, especially because I would imagine females on here are very likely to be feminists who oppose exactly that sort of deamening imagery.

I think you are being a bit of an earnest ernie here, especially in your naive understanding of "sexual" = demeaning and inappropriate. Infact if you have ever been around female dominated websites like ONTD! you'd find such avatars very, very common, even amongst women who consider themselves feminists.

Also I don't want to flame you but claiming "we established that the avatar was blatantly sexual and inappropriate" is far from the truth, infact quite a few people took issue with such a ridiculous parody of victorian morality.

revol68's picture
revol68
Offline
Joined: 23-02-04
Mar 4 2012 21:14

also I guessed male from your perfunctory writing style and also your rather crude notion of sexism and objectification, that is generally something that comes from either young and well meaning men or worse cynical posturing "male feminists" who think it will help them get laid, oh and from the odd extremely crude second wave rad-fem, but they are generally rarer than rocking horse shit.

I didn't want to derail your blog thread which I thought was generally very good, so I'll mention it here; your passing observation of football being anti working class etc lacks quite a bit of subtlety and comes across pretty elitist, as if football fans are morons unable to separate the pseudo tribalism of football from wider social issues.

p.s. I hope you don't think i'm having a go, at your age I had Propagandhi's "Refusing to be a Man" lyric's tippx'd on my school bag.

slothjabber
Offline
Joined: 1-08-06
Mar 4 2012 23:22
Birthday Pony wrote:
...
Anyways, I've noticed the standing assumption here is that posters are male unless otherwise noted. I find this interesting because I make a point of never identifying myself by gender or race on forums. The results:...

Libcom: Just thinks I'm male. Only ever entered discussion with pronouns or a few accusations of machisimo on the 'Attacked on the street' thread.

After lurking some old threads I've picked up that Libcom has a reputation of being macho. How true, untrue, or irrelevant this is isn't something I necessarily know. So I thought I'd share my little personal online fun with you to see if it can help what I assume is a continual process of addressing and combating this reputation.

OK, here's a bit of wild specualtion. Some propositions that may be wholly, partly, or not at all, true.

99% of internet users assume that they are talking to themselves. Not directly, but given the lack of another person to have face-to-face contact with, the easiest assumption when you have no other clues is whoever you're debating with is like you.

85% of the users on LibCom are male, and therefore, with a lack of any other clues, 83.9% of the time they will assume that the person they are talking to is male.

15% of users are female. However, instead of assuming that the other posters are also female, they know that most other LibCom users are male (they 'have a clue' that other users are probably not just like them), and will therefore assume on the basis of probability that the person they are talking to is male.

Therefore, by far the largest percentage of the time, nearly 100% of the time without other clues (and even with one other clue), the general assumption would be that the other poster is male.

Does that sound plausible?

wojtek
Offline
Joined: 8-01-11
Mar 5 2012 03:22
Quote:
Revol wrote:
I didn't want to derail your blog thread which I thought was generally very good, so I'll mention it here; your passing observation of football being anti working class etc...

Where did Croyd say this?

revol68's picture
revol68
Offline
Joined: 23-02-04
Mar 5 2012 03:29

ah it was just a wee point in passing in his blog about the shares game in his school (Not Just Fun and Games I think it's called), like I said it seemed a petty thing to mention in the blog comments.

Birthday Pony's picture
Birthday Pony
Offline
Joined: 11-12-11
Mar 5 2012 08:56

slothjabber, sounds plausible.

croydonian, I assumed you were male for the same reasons revol did, with less harsh of a tone. Feminist =/= sex fearing.

the croydonian anarchist's picture
the croydonian ...
Offline
Joined: 26-05-11
Mar 5 2012 10:27
revol68 wrote:
the croydonian anarchist wrote:
Birthday Pony wrote:
In fact, I assumed action_now was female because of their avatar, but I guess it was some rapper.

I find this a bit strange seeing as we established that the avatar was blatantly sexual and hence in appropriate. Such pictures tend to be quite demeaning of women, so I am surprised you thought action_now, who chose to have that avatar, would be female, especially because I would imagine females on here are very likely to be feminists who oppose exactly that sort of deamening imagery.

I think you are being a bit of an earnest ernie here, especially in your naive understanding of "sexual" = demeaning and inappropriate. Infact if you have ever been around female dominated websites like ONTD! you'd find such avatars very, very common, even amongst women who consider themselves feminists.

Also I don't want to flame you but claiming "we established that the avatar was blatantly sexual and inappropriate" is far from the truth, infact quite a few people took issue with such a ridiculous parody of victorian morality.

I did not mean to apply any sexual message is in appropriate, but I just think for this forum specifically, baring in mind what its purpose is, it would be in appropriate IN THE CONTEXT OF LIBCOM. And from what I can remember a fair few people were more on the side of in appropriateness, including the admins

the croydonian anarchist's picture
the croydonian ...
Offline
Joined: 26-05-11
Mar 5 2012 10:32
revol68 wrote:
also I guessed male from your perfunctory writing style and also your rather crude notion of sexism and objectification, that is generally something that comes from either young and well meaning men or worse cynical posturing "male feminists" who think it will help them get laid, oh and from the odd extremely crude second wave rad-fem, but they are generally rarer than rocking horse shit.

I didn't want to derail your blog thread which I thought was generally very good, so I'll mention it here; your passing observation of football being anti working class etc lacks quite a bit of subtlety and comes across pretty elitist, as if football fans are morons unable to separate the pseudo tribalism of football from wider social issues.

p.s. I hope you don't think i'm having a go, at your age I had Propagandhi's "Refusing to be a Man" lyric's tippx'd on my school bag.

Why do you think my writing style is perfunctory ? And I guess I am have a relatively limited understanding of sexism/feminism but I like to think I know the basics from an anarchist perspective. If it is crude, then Im sorry, and I would say I am definately well meaning. As for the football passing comment, I really dont know how you got that from what I was saying, which was a very small and general thing anyway.

the croydonian anarchist's picture
the croydonian ...
Offline
Joined: 26-05-11
Mar 5 2012 10:35

And finally, you dont have to apolagise and point out how un anarchist you were in your youth. If you think you would like to criticise me (constructively), and this goes for everyone, dont hold back thinking something like (oh well I was not as politically good when I was my age so it would be hypocritical for me to criticse, lets just not bother). Dont take that the wrong way, its just I have noticed a lot of feedback I get from my blog is how good I am compared to what they were like at the same sort of age.

soc's picture
soc
Offline
Joined: 21-04-11
Mar 5 2012 10:39

Language is quite tricky on this one. You see, my native language has no differentiation of male/female persons (like in English the he/she/it) and my brain just has a hard time to use these bits correctly. So, to avoid such issues, you can just use the Hungarian form of he/she/it: "ő" smile.