Life Philosophy

This thread, http://libcom.org/forums/general/what-meaning-life-04102013, is related to some of your questions, if you wanna check it out.

Definitely savory - primarily flavours being malt and hops

Anyway - FWIW - and this isn't to discourage this conversation - I think most people on this site view anarchism as a material philosophy. Not that it doesn't contain certain principles and can give one some direction in life, but I think most libcom posters want to use their anarchism more as guide to materially improving their lives through collective struggle.

I'll give your questions a go, though my politics don't really have much to do with my answers.

It depends. Nothing to do with anarchism. I enjoy life a lot, but unfortunately other people don't. Our politics, basically should be about making it as enjoyable as possible

don't really get the meaning of this question. Different people will view their lives in different ways.

Life doesn't have intrinsic "meaning" or "purpose", we can choose to attribute meaning to it if we want, and can decide on our own purpose.

Personally, I want to have as much fun as possible while I'm alive, and hopefully make the world a better place than if I hadn't been it.

who thinks the universe is an "evil" thing?! I'm glad the universe exists, as it means I exist, don't really know what else I can say here.

Firstly, it's not designed, it's pretty random. Secondly by what criteria do you mean? As without defining the criteria it's a pretty meaningless question.

It depends. Trying to be positive about things seems likely to make you happier so it seems worth trying to view things positively as possible. But some things just cannot be viewed optimistically or positively. Like mass starvation, for example.

No, those are two different things. You can be optimistic about the future, but be active in trying to make positive change, for example.

Don't really see the issue here. You can be optimistic because you can think about the potential for positive change in the future. Or you can look at all the everyday examples of mutual aid, cooperation, direct action and working class resistance and feel positive about it.

Yes, of course, and yes, of course.

I don't know. Nothing to do with my politics but I'm not sure if I want kids. Apart from the sheer expense of it, they seem like they would restrict my life too much.

Don't really know much about them TBH, but I would say overall I'm pretty much uninterested in all philosophy, and very much opposed to ideas about "spirituality", religion and so on.

I have seen it referred to in relation to anarchism, in Peter Marshall's Demanding the Impossible I believe. I don't think it's particularly relevant, certainly not a contemporary anarchist communism.

you could probably be an anarchist and follow any random religion, but I don't personally and I don't like any religions (although I believe people should be free to believe whatever they want).

not sure what sort of thing you mean here. But I don't think any religion has any relevance to anarchism.

not really sure what you mean by "what do you think" of it. Fair play to him, he is in a shit situation and he should do what he wants to try and make himself happy in the time he has left.

On the spiritual aspect of your questions, I would say that I have certain spiritual leanings(belief would be too strong a word), but I see no contradiction between taking notice of/attending to affairs of this spirit and seeking material comfort. Whether or not there is more to existence than we can be sure of, the fact is we are living a physical life, and I see the purpose of that life as being to revel in that physicality. You can't do that without being positive/optimistic, so I would say that a positive attitude is something to develop. Probably easier said than done for many people though.
The state of the world can be a very difficult thing to accept and can quite easily drag you down, nonetheless, having an awareness off this is still something to have gratitude for - at least you know why your life often sucks and realise that you're not just a failure. Plus the very act of seeking solutions to the worlds ills
is therapeutic in itself.
I would say that my 2 best tools that make my life so enjoyable are my gratitude for all the good things I've got in my life and my sense of humour. Laughing has to be the best activity of all.

Anarchists have all sorts of diffrent life philosophies cause they're only concerned with sharing a few fundamental beliefs about freedom and society. Anarchism is traditionally against religion because 1) churches roles in abetting oppression 2) spiritual dependence on an external power/force, but there of course are more libertarian spiritualities that are not inconsistent with anarchism.

We anarchists must socialize beyond the rationale of value, and poop on it in when we encounter it. The freedom of our activity which counters the state and capitalism will be invested with a great spirit that will seduce the workers under the black banner of anarchism. Organizing autonomous spaces where money becomes pushed aside will provide the soil from which the wildflowers of anarchism will penetrate into the thorny brush of capitalism. Believing in yourself and believing in others will shatter the patriotic delusions to boss, police officer and priest who want to shackle your being to their own fetid institutions. Eating away at the death-mountain of capitalism requires a lot of different emotional capabilities. You have to be able to host all sorts of thoughts and feelings and use them to a revolutionary advantage.

I’d describe myself as an optimistic pessimist.

To find a meaning in life we are obliged to embrace ideas, which give life meaning. My optimism springs from the belief that life can be improved and of necessity this can only be done with kindred spirits (this collective enterprise means you do not have sole responsibly for ‘everything’ and allows individuals to develop and express themselves in a social context).

My pessimism comes from the knowledge that the working class is so busy escaping the ravages of capitalism that they may not rally in time to prevent the destruction of the planet.

However it is only sensible to live in hope as the alternative is folly - a negation of everything/ everyone who enriches life. There is lots of stuff to discover and enjoy – leave the wearing of hair shirts to the religious fanatics.

Basically I think that life is for doing. Not for arriving at the end of something, not to be happy, not to feel like a real person, or to feel successful. Society is quite interested in matters of health at the moment so I'll use the example of someone who would like to get physically fit. Most times when we hear someone talk about getting fit, they idealise this magical end result where they've got their cute little abs and their ass of iron - except there is the major problem that if they were to achieve this, it would be lost as soon as they stop doing it. To occupy your thought in a world of fantasy and abstraction is to be half-dead. A person's real power is emergent from being indivisibly involved in their present circumstance. Doing this ensures that the task we've undertaken is done in the correct spirit, that of baby steps (replace working out with something you would like to achieve) because the real substance of any endeavour is actually to be fully with it. If someone has called you obsessed for how diligently you do something, you're probably doing it well.

Putting our attention on doing is the only thing for it, for the simple reason that literally infinite lifetimes could be spent talking about life. What we try to do when we give big wordy answers about the nature of the universe is to pin it down and stop it from moving. Even if we were to somehow satisfactorily navelgaze everything, in the very next moment the world is vastly different. Basically we have no control, only influence..and there are no hard and fast rules for how to make influence work. So yes life is for enjoying. If humanity (myself included) does not shape up in time to avoid destroying ourselves it would be quite a shame because we have so much potential to make life beautiful, but lately I've been accepting that if we do not manage then it's for the best because living may be too intolerable if we were to fail to do a 180 even in the face of extinction. Whatever the result is of all of this, at a certain level it will be the right one. I don't exclude my own agency from what happens, I plan to fully involve myself in all of this.

Just a few of my views.

Kureigo-San #10

Sorry, I find this a post of largely abstract mumbo-jumbo.

‘Basically I think that life is for doing… A person's real power is emergent from being indivisibly involved in their present circumstance… the real substance of any endeavour is actually to be fully with it. ’

This may be a meaningful form - ‘life is for doing’, though why no mention of content? I think this is just as important if not more so than being in the moment. History is surely packed with despicable zealots who believed they were operating in the correct spirit?

All words themselves being abstractions, you're absolutely spot-on hahaha

I wasn't dishing out absolutist statements there in post #10.I was hoping that it would make sense to people who think similarly, as that allows for people to readily fill in the gaps. I had assumed that the misdoings of tyrants didn't need pointing out as despicable. It's usually the case that the more a person can really be attentive to the world - listening closely to birds singing, the flavours of their food, generally finding the ordinary extraordinary - then the greater the chances are of them being a truly peaceful person. Not that simply doing any of these particular things makes anyone peaceful - it's about how you do things rather than just what you do.

The intermittent and impersonal exchange of text messages is a difficult way to talk about difficult things.

1. As an anarchist is life something that is good or enjoyable or is it loss, pain and suffering?
It will most probably be all of the above hopefully the proportions will work out in favour of the first two.

2. Is life bitter, or sweet or sour?
As someone who whould choose bitter above all else and sour above sweet I'm guessing my answer is ass backwards.

3. What is the purpose or meaning of life?
This question has very little meaning to me. You can find purpose in many things but not really life itself as it's a bit abstract a concept.

4. Is the universe or nature a beautiful thing or is a horrible 'evil' thing?
It's definitely beautiful! But also tough as hell unless you have the help of others.

5. Does the universe have 'good design' or is it 'badly designed'? Notthat I am meaning here that it is designed by a God.
I have only the vaguest idea of how the universe works and again have difficulties with the way the question is asked. I see the universe as a given and don't really get upset about gravity, or the amount of energy embedded in matter. On the contrary I find those things pretty awesome.

6. Is it better to be optimistic and positive about life and inspire it in others?
Both optimism and pessimism can be pacifying. You are probably more useful to yourself and others if you remain sociable in some of the contexts you find yourself.

7. Does optimisim or positivity mean being content with capitalism and suffering, that one should be happy with what he has got and not complain?
No!

8. How can anarchists be optimistic or positive when they have a materialist philosophy, and are concerned with making the world into a better place?
To be optimistic and enjoy something aren't the same thing. You can be pessimistic about the large scale issues but still enjoy yourself.

9. As an anarchist are you still able to enjoy your own life, and can you still have ambitions for example wanting to be a teacher, doctor/nurse etc?
Enjoying work as an anarchist is very difficult even when you're lucky enough to work with your main interest. Capitalism kills it as it stunts the potential of everything. The only way is to be able to for short moments loose yourself in some detail. It still helps to make the day go by if you're doing something you have some interest in. Even better is good workmates though.

10. Could you bring children into this world? How would you raise them and would you teach them about anarchism?
Yes and I'm loving it. I'm not sure how I will raise them though. I suspect I will remain unsure until they move out. Basically winging it atm. I am taking my current one on a stroll tomorrow (May 1) so she will of course end up knowing more that she want's to about anarchism.

11. Do you like eastern philosophies?
I don't know. I don't have much of an attraction to that sort of thing. Atleast not yet.

I guess I'm lucky enough to be faschinated by the world and almost everything in it. I'm stupid enough to love animals, plants, kids, how light falls, spaces and places all that stuff. None of this prevents me from being angry as fuck about the state of things!

Kureigo-San #11

I did not mean to imply that you would consider the misdoings of tyrants ok and agree ‘it’s about how you do things rather than just what you do’ – form and content together – the means and the end being inseparable.

On the question of ‘is life bitter, or sweet or sour’ it occurs to me that everyone can expect a taste of all three, which allows us to differentiate one from the other. I know of someone suffering from cancer, who having literally lost all sense of taste, finds his life greatly impoverished.

Good questions! This will be fun.

Edit: Should go without saying, but I'm answering for myself, not all anarchists

1. As an anarchist is life something that is good or enjoyable or is it loss, pain and suffering?

Both. But we have the potential to make it much more good and enjoyable, and much less loss, pain, and suffering. To me that's the goal of anarchism.

2. Is life bitter, or sweet or sour?

Same answer to #1.

3. What is the purpose or meaning of life?

Well I don't know if I can be an authority on the subject. LOL. But in my view it's this:

A) To make the world as good a place as possible (anarchism FTW)
B) To make yourself as good a person as possible (developing qualities such as compassion, empathy, and the skills and wisdom necessary to accomplish "A")
C) As well as working on the "big picture" (which is what "A" is all about), also help by being good to the individuals who you encounter in your life - those close to you, strangers, and in between. (And be good to yourself, too)
D) Reduce suffering and improve wellbeing - for others and also for yourself!

(These were listed in random order and there's overlap between them.)

4. Is the universe or nature a beautiful thing or is a horrible 'evil' thing?

Both. I believe we can eventually at least drastically increase the good and reduce the bad. Perhaps totally? I mean, we do have an eternity to work on this. (And by we I'm referring to all beings in the universe.)

5. Does the universe have 'good design' or is it 'badly designed'? Not that I am meaning here that it is designed by a God.

Same as #4.

6. Is it better to be optimistic and positive about life and inspire it in others?

This is a tough one. I think we have to be optimistic about our ability to improve things. And our view of the way things are right now should be pessimistic enough that we recognize the injustice and suffering and dangers, and optimistic enough that we aren't dominated by suffering.

Same thing when taking a view not just of society but each person reflecting on their own life.

Be happy with the good things. Let them bring you joy. And with the bad things, try to maintain a balance of being upset enough to want to change them, but at peace with it enough that suffering isn't dominating your life.

As for the things that are somewhere between good and bad... those are the trickier ones.

7. Does optimisim or positivity mean being content with capitalism and suffering, that one should be happy with what he has got and not complain?

Same as #6.

8. How can anarchists be optimistic or positive when they have a materialist philosophy, and are concerned with making the world into a better place?

I'm a generally happy person. My personal life is good. The world is messed up, but I'm working to change it, and so are other people I know, and I'm usually optimistic we'll succeed.

I also have my moments of pessimism, where I'm crying about how we'll never win, and how humanity is so shitty we don't even deserve to be saved from extinction. Usually when I've had too much to drink.

9. As an anarchist are you still able to enjoy your own life, and can you still have ambitions for example wanting to be a teacher, doctor/nurse etc?

Yes I enjoy my own life. No I don't have those ambitions. But I think having goals for a career is compatible with being an anarchist. (with exceptions depending on what the career goal is)

10. Could you bring children into this world? How would you raise them and would you teach them about anarchism?

I don't want to, because they take up too much time.

11. Do you like eastern philosophies?

Some of the ideas I like and find helpful, others I've found offensive and dangerous.

12. Does Taoism have anything in common with anarchism? I've seen some sites describe it as being anarchist. It's philosophy of non-action is quite intresting, but I don't see how that works when anarchists want to improve the world?

You can find an overlap, like a venn-diagram between the two. But there's also a lot of difference. I would not call this an anarchist philosophy, but I think someone could find a way to be both a Taoist and an anarchist. I don't know enough about Taoism to really say, though.

13. What about Buddhism? Does it have anything in common with anarchism? How can one be an anarchist and a buddhist if Buddhism views it as being pointless trying to change the world and that freedom from suffering is found in escaping the cycle of birth, death and rebirth?

I think to be both a Buddhist and an anarchist, you'd have to reject a lot of the teachings of Buddhism. But that's pretty standard for how people actually are with religions. They follow certain parts and reject the rest.

14. Do you like materialist pantheist philosophies? Can it work well with anarchism?

Don't know what that is.

15. What do you think about what this guy Stephen Sutton is doing, he is a 19 year old British teenager dying from cancer, but he is totally fine with it, raising millions for charity, and still posting on his facebook page 'stephen's story' even although he is in hospital in a pretty bad condition at the moment?

Well I think good for him that he's doing this. I bet it brings him peace, fulfilment, joy. AND he's making a difference for others.

But you mention in a later post the danger of him being used as an example to shame others into being contented with their lives regardless of the tragedy and injustice in them, and to quit complaining. Yes, this is dangerous.

On the other hand, I also think that someone like Stephen can be a positive inspiration to those who are suffering.

Like I and other people have mentioned in their replies, it's importance to have a balance between, on the one hand, being grateful and making the best of what you got, and on the other, being unsatisfied and struggling to make things better. Stephen's example can be used to help people find that balance, but can also be used to shame people into being passive and accepting bad things.

Scallywag, when do we get to hear how you respond to these questions?

Really good post Scallywag. I regrettably don't have the patience to explain the possibility of an atheist spirituality to anyone. Because I am lazy.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Emil_Cioran

subprole, in a grand feat of irony 'Happy' started playing down the hallway when I was reading Emil's quotes.

Pantheism is a really interesting perspective, and until now I didn't know what it meant. I'd say I have some beliefs that overlap with pantheism, regarding interconnectedness of all matter/energy. Although it's over my head, quantum physics research seems to be proving that.

I'd be interested to hear how this has applied in your life. How does this effect your day to day? Has it led you to make different or unusual choices?

Minor editing to make my comments more readable.

Has it ever been?

Ok but first a general observation, a lot of your questions seem to have a pretty arbitrary either or angle. Seems quite an absolutist frame work for someone hoping to illicit a broad range of answers.

1. As an anarchist is life something that is good or enjoyable or is it loss, pain and suffering?

Surely for us (any of us) to understand and appreciate one or the other it is necessary for us to have experienced both in at least some degree right? So wouldn't that automatically mean that the answer is a bit of both to varying degrees?

2. Is life bitter, or sweet or sour?

I know you've said this is a reference to a Chinese cultural thing but I still really don't get what this question is about. Unless this is question one with a third option.

3. What is the purpose or meaning of life?

42

4. Is the universe or nature a beautiful thing or is a horrible 'evil' thing?

Again in order to judge nature/everything by this standard it would have to have some elements of both present.

5. Does the universe have 'good design' or is it 'badly designed'? Not that I am meaning here that it is designed by a God.

Is it designed at all?

6. Is it better to be optimistic and positive about life and inspire it in others?

In general yes, in every situation no. Attitudes effect both ourselves and other people we associate or interact with. So "negative" attitudes can have a corrosive effect on others and ourselves. Abusive environments often encourage further abusive behaviour in those with in it, this is why (okay a contributing factor) bad things so often seem to spiral and escalate.

On the other hand constant positivity can be inappropriate and if its forced damaging as well.

7. Does optimisim or positivity mean being content with capitalism and suffering, that one should be happy with what he has got and not complain?

? Not unless you are a firm believer in the present society. Optimism for everyone else is the opposite, looking out for signs of improvements, or steps on the road of your chosen path.

8. How can anarchists be optimistic or positive when they have a materialist philosophy, and are concerned with making the world into a better place?

Don't really understand this one, can you explain why you think there's a contradiction or conflict?

9. As an anarchist are you still able to enjoy your own life, and can you still have ambitions for example wanting to be a teacher, doctor/nurse etc?

Yes, no offence but this one should be easy to answer since there have been Anarchists from most professions, Kropotkin was amongst many things an Anthropologist and most famous Anarchist types had some relation to journalism, academia, the arts, education etc.

10. Could you bring children into this world? How would you raise them and would you teach them about anarchism?

Physically yes, probably not but that's mainly due to other issues not at all related to my beliefs in anything.

11. Do you like eastern philosophies?

No, in fact the ones I've looked at Shinto, Confucianism, Buddhism, Hinduism etc strike me as appalling. They all seem to directly prop up class systems and oppressions of a certain type and even worse give them the appearance of righteousness. In much the same way the Abrahamic faiths did in Europe and the Middle East.

12. Does Taoism have anything in common with anarchism? I've seen some sites describe it as being anarchist. It's philosophy of non-action is quite intresting, but I don't see how that works when anarchists want to improve the world?

I'm not an expert but I doubt it, could you give us an example of one of these sites and the connections they state?

13. What about Buddhism? Does it have anything in common with anarchism?1 How can one be an anarchist and a buddhist if Buddhism views it as being pointless trying to change the world and that freedom from suffering is found in escaping the cycle of birth, death and rebirth?2

1: I don't think so, the reincarnation cycle in particular seems to be the opposite of Egalitarianism by making life a question of rising or falling in status the main focus of existence. Then there's the merit system employed by several forms of Buddhism that conveniently enrich the Monasteries and keep them close to their societies rulers. Reminds me a lot of the time the Catholic church sold absolutions for sins.

2: Usually one believes in a religion and a political doctrine like Anarchism in two ways, keeping them both separate parts of your life, or like Christian Anarchism blending the two by emphasising the similarities (if any) and using one to reinforce the other.

14. Do you like materialist pantheist philosophies?1 Can it work well with anarchism?2

1: No.

2: I think this is a personal matter really either they'll work well for you or they won't.

15. What do you think about what this guy Stephen Sutton is doing, he is a 19 year old British teenager dying from cancer, but he is totally fine with it, raising millions for charity, and still posting on his facebook page 'stephen's story' even although he is in hospital in a pretty bad condition at the moment?

Well good on him I suppose. I wish him well and hope he can make a recovery even though it doesn't seem likely.

Yes that is a common and absurd argument. Though it's a rather weak one and doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I find its a good tactic to break down the internal logic "you can't complain when others have it worse then you" and apply to other situations where appropriate.

At this juncture I'd like to point out that asking or answering these questions is simply wanking off between the ears. Nothing wrong with that - we all like a good wank from time to time, but I really think it's only value is that of scratching an itch.

BTW, unfortunately, Steven Sutton died last week. It seems he spent the time he had left doing something that he felt was worthwhile, which I think generally brings more satisfaction in life than theorising and waffling. And no, the irony of posting my views on this on an Internet forum is not lost on me.

Something said here could give someone who is depressed something to go with, or could eventually leading them to go live in a buddhist monastery in a few years, or something like that. You yourself Webby have experienced a pretty radical change in your day-to-day experience of health because of the high-carb low-fat vegan content I shared on this forum. We're not in any position to know whether what we do online is worthless or worthwhile, because that depends on what the recipient chooses to do with it on the other end. Even seeing someone's high score for an iphone game come up on their facebook can make them realise how much of their sweet time they're wasting as well, and push them on to making and then pursuing some kind of goal. We don't know how people are gonna react to anything really.

The problem with setting the bar for worthwhile action as high as Sutton's, with all the public feedback it accrues, is that realistically if I have to do something like that for my actions to be worthwhile then I'm going to be going nowhere slowly in my paralysing web of disparaging self-doubt. The world consists of subtle, low-level influence - as a forum of people acutely aware of concepts of dominance and privilege know well enough.

Most of us would like to be in some situation where it is exceedingly obvious that what you're doing is worthwhile - whatever that means to the person - but in the meantime we shouldn't forget that we may always be doing some good just because of what other people interpret from us.

KS - Fair comment. My post was how I felt at 04.30 this morning about to set out on a very long journey to work! I still think there's some truth to what I say but your comment is clearly more thoughtful and valid than mine. Come to think of it, peoples 'wanking' on Libcom has resulted in me changing the way I live in many ways. On that basis I think that it's best that I now shut the fuck up!!!

Edit: Regarding this

I was in no way suggesting that 'worthwhile' should be measured by the remarkable attitude of this young guy.

Also, you scoundrel, you've now outed me as a born again vegan, which means I have no excuse not to publish the frankly astonishing effect that my change in nutrition has had on my health on the 'Being Vegan' thread. Bah!