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sam bauer
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Joined: 4-05-17
Jun 21 2017 08:40

Could people stop using the term prostitute? It's a pejorative word used to diminish sex workers rights.

As for sex workers rights, it's common in these types of discussion to completely disregard what sex workers themselves have to say about, well, sex work (although it's more common in feminist discussion because, you know, anarchists are usually supposed to stand up for workers rights and oppose oppression). Seeing how this discussion seems to start moving towards sex work in general, here is a link to what sex workers themselves have to say about it: http://www.iusw.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/SexWorkAndHumanRightsIUSW...

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Rommon
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Joined: 23-03-17
Jun 21 2017 08:47
Chilli Sauce wrote:
The other is why anarchists or communists might have ideological (and, yes, even moral issues) with purchasing sexual services. For me, I'd say the main issue is consent. If sex is reduced to a financial transaction - complete with all the pressures of bosses, the market, paying rent - then consent can't taken as a given.

The notion of "consent" in capitalism is really twisted in my opinion ... take a woman who immigrated to another country out of desperation, and now finds herself in a brothel, she has no Family, no real community.

Even if there is no one putting a gun to her head telling her to sleep With a disgusting old man who is paying the brothel, is she really "consenting" to it? Technically she is, she says yes to get a payment, but really what option does she have? She's been ripped out of any community, she's alone, and entirely dependant on the brothel to live.

This is why I feel actual community, relationship, and the christian concept of "koinonia" (fellowship) are vital. The context in which "consent" is given is almost as important as the actual subjective decision.

zugzwang
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Joined: 25-11-16
Jun 21 2017 16:45
Quote:
I'm sure People as individuals have no problems With many different kinds of Things, that doesn't make it healthy or good.

Quote:
Everyone does this, it's impossible to not .... if you say ANYTHING is unhealthy, wrong or anything else you are making a moral judgement.

Isn't health outside the realm of moral judgments? Those aren't really synonymous terms. We know from evidence that cigarettes are unhealthy; we don't know that 'long-term intimate relationships' are necessarily the 'healthiest' kind of sexual relationship for everyone.

sam bauer
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Joined: 4-05-17
Jun 21 2017 11:17
Rommon wrote:
The notion of "consent" in capitalism is really twisted in my opinion ... take a woman who immigrated to another country out of desperation, and now finds herself in a brothel, she has no Family, no real community.

Even if there is no one putting a gun to her head telling her to sleep With a disgusting old man who is paying the brothel, is she really "consenting" to it? Technically she is, she says yes to get a payment, but really what option does she have? She's been ripped out of any community, she's alone, and entirely dependant on the brothel to live.

This is why I feel actual community, relationship, and the christian concept of "koinonia" (fellowship) are vital. The context in which "consent" is given is almost as important as the actual subjective decision.

Please don't say that sex workers are allowing themselves to be raped. We all have morals when it comes to sex. The difference here is that you are pushing your own morals about sex on other people.

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Rommon
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Jun 21 2017 12:17
sam bauer wrote:
Please don't say that sex workers are allowing themselves to be raped. We all have morals when it comes to sex. The difference here is that you are pushing your own morals about sex on other people.

That isn't what I said ... read all of what I said, and please don't missrepresent me.

wojtek
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Joined: 8-01-11
Jun 21 2017 13:08

Thanks for the clarification Chilli.

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Craftwork
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Joined: 26-12-15
Jun 21 2017 15:37

This is worth a watch, it explains everything:

potrokin
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Joined: 28-05-16
Jul 29 2017 09:37
Rommon wrote:
S. Artesian wrote:
Left out the most important element in the reduction in repression-- and that is the withering away, or abolition, of the (thermo)nuclear family.

I completely dissagree here; There's a reason why modern late Capitalism is A-OK With getting rid of the traditional Family, becuase the more People rely on the market for their needs, the more they are socailly atomized, the more they view themselves as individual consumers rather than anything else (fathers, mothers, daughters, neighbors, comrades, brothers, and so on) the better for Capitalism.

When I (as I often do) speak to market-fundamentalists or just People who still trust Capitalism about the possiblity of communism; one of the first examples I give is the Family, both Nuclear and extended. basically everything that happens in a (non-patriarchal, well functioning) Family is communistic.

Get rid of the Family and what you're left With is contract, i.e. marketized relationships. I personally think the idea that two People covenant together (excuse the theological Language) rather than merely contract is a good thing, I think relationships that are not mere contingencies but rather stable covenental bonds are good.

Families are only tolerable and only really work when all people in the family are friends, therefore a group of friends is just as good as any family (or should be). From my own experience it is a good idea to see family members more as friends, if that is possible, and it should be possible because if you don't get on with a member of your family and don't have much in common with them and can't be yourself around them then theres not really any point in having anything to do with them. The idea of suffering someone you have nothing in common with just because they are biologically related to you is is an old fashioned idea that doesn't really make sense. There are huge problems with the traditional family though for obvious reasons, which is why it is best not to have a traditional family or be part of one.