Reading Recommendations for a Fellow Anarchist

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LBird
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Sep 20 2012 12:03
omen's cartoon wrote:
...running about a field...

'Field'? Surely this is also a higher level concept, much too 'abstract' for ComradeAppleton?

No, he clearly would say "All I see are twenty-three individuals running about on several million blades of grass...".

LBird
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Sep 20 2012 12:06
radicalgraffiti wrote:
i think most people here call personal property "possessions", and normally use "property" to mean exclusively the private ownership of the means of production, unless they explicitly say otherwise.

I've noticed market supporters like to conflate the two concepts, or can't understand the difference, and use defences of possessions to defend ownership of the means of production.

Yeah, I agree completely, mate.

omen
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Sep 20 2012 14:48

Since 7 people I've never met upped my previous post, it somewhat inflated my ego, and I feel myself coming round to ComradeAppleton's point of view. So I upped my own previous post, to bring it to an even 8, then I did this:

(Click for bigger version.)

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Joseph Kay
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Sep 20 2012 14:51

all threads should be settled by means of cartoon satire.

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Ethos
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Sep 20 2012 18:56
Agent of the Fifth International wrote:
our response to LBird is quite repetitive, as is all of your other responses.

ComradeAppleton wrote:
My sense is the exact opposite. All I keep getting is the same reply...

LBird wrote:
No, as usual you're ignoring what's being said. Either that, or you really don't understand.

ComradeAppleton wrote:
...Once again you repeat what you wrote previously...

laborbund wrote:
Appleton is to Anarchism what Dick Cheney is to Anarchism.

ComradeAppleton wrote:
On the contrary, you people are to anarchy what Stalin is to anarchy..

You have to appreciate how a good number of ComradeAppleton's replies are essentially, "No u".

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Agent of the In...
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Sep 20 2012 20:12

Poor comrade; he just wanted to be part of the club of the top 1%.

omen
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Sep 20 2012 21:19

Last one for today. Just a quick summary of the general trajectory of this thread for anyone not up to speed:

(Click for bigger/readable version.) (ETA: The typo is deliberate. Fuck!)

I thought it would save people having to read the rest of the thread.

I've read it.

Every fucking last word of it.

I've even tried unreading it!

I hate myself!

I'm off to drink myself to death with cheap cider...

Reginald J. Tro...
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Sep 20 2012 23:30

There have been some fantastic posts in this thread by comrades (and here I mean actual comrades, not people with mislabeled usernames). Appleton may not have bothered reading anything anyone said but I've found much of it pretty inspiring. Its always good to hear views you hold articulated in ways you've never been able to quite express yourself. Hopefully that's of some consolation to those who bothered writing long posts, only to be repeatedly ignored by someone unwilling to engage with any opinions that contradict his/her own.

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Railyon
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Sep 20 2012 23:44

Maybe we should just face it.

We're dogmatic.

Our holy writ is a handful of unfinished manuscripts and drafts by a bearded old man who drank like a fish.

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ocelot
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Sep 20 2012 23:45

More cartoons plz

omen
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Sep 20 2012 23:51
Reginald J. Trotsfield wrote:
There have been some fantastic posts in this thread by comrades (and here I mean actual comrades, not people with mislabeled usernames).

Yeah, I just want to add the comments in my above post weren't directed at other posters, who have done a grand job given the circumstances, just at the general madness of having to explain the same thing over and over to someone who wanted it explained to them in the first place, but who deliberately dismisses every explanation offered out of hand, and who invariably twists what others said into the exact opposite.

omen
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Sep 21 2012 00:44
ocelot wrote:
More cartoons plz

OK, one quick one for now! Inspired by this disturbing post (which surprisingly no one commented on at the time) from earlier in the thread:

(Click to see.)

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jura
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Sep 21 2012 06:15

The BORG synth is hilarious grin

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jonthom
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Sep 21 2012 06:46
omen wrote:
ocelot wrote:
More cartoons plz

OK, one quick one for now! Inspired by this disturbing post (which surprisingly no one commented on at the time) from earlier in the thread:

(Click to see.)

this one has had me giggling like a loon for the last fifteen minutes grin

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ComradeAppleton
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Sep 21 2012 10:14
LBird wrote:
Productive property is social property and will be under our democratic control, whereas personal property is for private usage (underpants, toothbrush, etc.).

The definition of what constitutes 'personal property' will also be a social decision, not a private one.

This is just laughable. A real anarchist doesn't consult his decisions with 'society' before he makes them. There is no such thing as 'social' property. By the way, if you mean that 'society' will decide what is private and what is not - that is the system we have now called democracy. Democracy is the biggest tyrant as yet invented by man. It says that because there is more people on one side of an issue, they have the right to dominate, enslave, and exploit the minority. No real anarchist can support unbridled democracy. The anarchist makes all decisions himself and his reality is the individual act.

You are clearly not a proponent of anarchist, but of Marxism.

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Agent of the In...
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Sep 21 2012 11:49

You killed us with that one, didn't you?

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ocelot
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Sep 21 2012 11:58

What about her reality?

LBird
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Sep 21 2012 13:22

ComradeAppleton, why don't you read what we write, rather than make up pretend dragons and pretend to slay them?

What's the point of using up your time in such an unproductive way?

For us, this thread has been of some use in clarifying and explaining our ideas, as other posters have testified, but for you, it's just a continuous, monotonous monologue.

Don't you have any friends you can share your views with? Online or in real life? Why bother with us?

It's becoming pathetic, and I'm starting to feel ashamed at toying with you.

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ComradeAppleton
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Sep 21 2012 13:48
LBird wrote:
It's becoming pathetic, and I'm starting to feel ashamed at toying with you.

All you wrote is a bunch of babble about how 'society' is inescapable and I should just surrender to 'it' (while also handing over all my productivity for the 'common good'). You seem to be regurgitating Plato's Republic, with yourself as philosopher king. It seems not an iota of new thought has appeared in communist circles for over two thousand years.

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Melancholy of R...
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Sep 21 2012 13:51

At the start of Appleton's membership I questioned why he was in a forum called libcom if he hated communists/ism and suggested he try some libertarian/freemarket forums. I'm not sure what he's still doing here as he's not converting anybody to his cause and we'd be the worst crowd to try that anyway.

omen
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Sep 21 2012 14:21

You lot better up this like crazy, 'cause it was a bastard to pull off with a hangover:

(Click for biggy.)

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Railyon
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Sep 21 2012 14:59

I'd so fucking love a wallpaper version of that.

omen
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Sep 21 2012 15:32
Railyon wrote:
I'd so fucking love a wallpaper version of that.

1680x1050 png or if your have something that can read SVG (like Inkscape) make your own to any size with this.

omen
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Sep 21 2012 16:14
ComradeAppleton wrote:
This is just laughable. A real anarchist doesn't consult his decisions with 'society' before he makes them.

No True Anarchist.

ComradeAppleton wrote:
Democracy is the biggest tyrant as yet invented by man. It says that because there is more people on one side of an issue, they have the right to dominate, enslave, and exploit the minority.

roll eyes

Answer me a straight question, ComradeAppleton, and I'll give you a biscuit: How is it that in a communist society, everybody is going to take a vote to steal your cake and gang rape you while you watch TV (your examples), but in an individualist society, where anyone can do what they want, for some reason nobody wants to do any of those things to you? And given you live right now in a more-or-less* democratic country, why aren't they all clamouring at your door for cake-sex right now!?

* No sniggering at the back of the class, please!

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ComradeAppleton
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Sep 21 2012 16:21
omen wrote:
Answer me a straight question, ComradeAppleton, and I'll give you a biscuit: How is it that in a communist society, everybody is going to take a vote to steal your cake and gang rape you while you watch TV (your examples), but in an individualist society, where anyone can do what they want, for some reason nobody wants to do any of those things to you? And given you live right now in a more-or-less democratic country, why aren't they all clamouring at your door for cake-sex right now!?

This is very simple really. People are mostly decent and outside of war or Africa gang rape is not on anyone's to-do list. Neither are murder or theft. People with such desires will always exist, of course, but they are really a marginal minority. Hence, I don't fear that democracy will lead to rape - most people just wouldn't vote for it (although this is not a certain fact, it's just what I see around me).

Democracy is the extension of the christian principle of 'equality'. Communism logically follows from democracy. After all, democracy is all about not letting people make their own decisions, but instead making them do what the majority wants them to do. That is the very definition of tyranny - taking away a person's will and replacing it with someone else's will. What I fear from democracy is not rape, but material oppression (as is taking place in our 'more-or-less' democratic society today). We are living in a world where theft is common and even supported by most people (through taxes) and their freedoms are severely limited (through laws). I consider the very existence of laws to be illegitimate.

radicalgraffiti
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Sep 21 2012 16:57
ComradeAppleton wrote:
LBird wrote:
Productive property is social property and will be under our democratic control, whereas personal property is for private usage (underpants, toothbrush, etc.).

The definition of what constitutes 'personal property' will also be a social decision, not a private one.

This is just laughable. A real anarchist doesn't consult his decisions with 'society' before he makes them. There is no such thing as 'social' property. By the way, if you mean that 'society' will decide what is private and what is not - that is the system we have now called democracy. Democracy is the biggest tyrant as yet invented by man. It says that because there is more people on one side of an issue, they have the right to dominate, enslave, and exploit the minority. No real anarchist can support unbridled democracy. The anarchist makes all decisions himself and his reality is the individual act.

You are clearly not a proponent of anarchist, but of Marxism.

So according to you:

1. Democracy is more tyrannical than absolute monarchy or fascist dictatorship.

2. "Real" anarchists don't consider the effect their actions have on others, they just do whatever they fuck they feel like.

3. All anarchists are men.

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ocelot
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Sep 21 2012 17:02
ComradeAppleton wrote:
People are mostly decent and outside of war or Africa gang rape is not on anyone's to-do list.

For a minute there I was worried you were going to be racist, or something...

redsdisease
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Sep 21 2012 17:19

So I stopped reading this thread after it was clear that Comrade Appleton was just an obnoxious troll. But I just came back to it and I have to say that it's turned out to be one of my favorite Libcom threads ever.

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laborbund
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Sep 21 2012 17:52
omen wrote:
Inspired by this disturbing post (which surprisingly no one commented on at the time) from earlier

Yes appleton has some especially fucked up sexual politics, and I have tried to drag him into it a couple of times, but nobody seems interested. But to summarize:

- appleton believes that if you are raped, and you then choose to respond with police intervention, that YOU are "immoral". Not the rapist, nor even the cops, but YOU.

- appleton often, bizarrely, uses hypothetical rape or gang rape in order to criticize democracy and/or communism

its really, really creepy.

Also, Omen clearly wins the thread.

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laborbund
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Sep 21 2012 18:04

And oh yeah, wikipedia says:

Quote:
Comrade means "friend", "colleague", or "ally".

This would suggest a social relationship right?

wikipedia then goes on to say:

Quote:
The term is frequently used by left-wing organizations around the globe.

What does the phrase "left-wing" mean? I don't get it. What are "organizations"? The word is surely just a meaningless abstraction right?