Trans solidarity.

Admin: snip

BJJ's original post asked a simple and important question: how to do you challenge hostile bigotry against trans people? That's an important question no one has picked up on (though several people have had a dig at BJJ) The level of verbal, physical and sexual violence against trans people is disgusting and the depression and suicide rate is very high.

So for my part, my experience with dealing with anti-trans people basically has come down to trying to persuade them to mind their own business. People who have argued that it's not natural I've tried to challenge their idea that anything is natural. I've also played the sympathy card (i.e. oh these poor trans people with their mad self image) when I was worried that the extent of a person's bigotry might mean they harm people, even though that idea (trans people are to be pittied) is poisonous. None of this is the ideal response, but I can't think what a really good response to anti-trans bigotry would be, if there is one.

serge, me and arbetein had a go!

Fair enough, but I thought your responses were not great. Serge seemed to be saying that aggressively transphobic people can be humiliated into not being violent by pointing out a supposed cross dressing tendency amongst them. This seems to me to be just massively unhelpful in combating real life anti-trans hate, and I think it was mainly intended to be funny.

Arbeiten's post 27 seemed not to really get trans issues at all. The man in a dress schtick, even if meant sympathetically, is really problematic.

You yourself I don't have any criticism of cos you have not, as far as I am aware, taken any real positions. None the less, if you think that this has been anything other than a thread that would alienate almost all trans people I genuinely think you are mistaken. Being trans is not easy, and having it reduced to some issue of how much blue collar workers do or don't accept you is bullshit. Libcom can do better. Or at least should do better.

That's my chips pissed on

However, that response has worked for me on a couple of occasions in so far as it actually shut the bigotted fuckers up. That aside, I agree, it probably wasn't that helpful a contribution. Sorry.

It is not clear to me if this thread is about transsexuals or transvestites or both. Anyway I’ll write about both though - as will appear obvious, I’m no expert.
Trans-hate in my experience has little to do with rationality and more linked to feelings of deep fear and insecurity.

I’ve know two transsexuals who opted to become women. When I heard it discussed/mentioned there was not always a lot of rationality being expressed. In both cases, there was bafflement as to why anyone would father children if they were ‘gay-wanting to be a woman’. Tapping into a primitive fear regarding sexual identity it was thought that perhaps it could be caught through proximity, or worse like an allergy, could simply develop ‘overnight’.

At this level I do not think a direct confrontation with these prejudices is going to obtain a desirable outcome. I have generally used the line that anyone taking such ‘extreme measures’ must have been very unhappy and mixed up.

The only trans-hate regarding transvestites in my experience was expressed by a pal of mine, when we were talking about being a London cabby (he was always trying to persuade me to do ‘the knowledge’). This could probably better be described as an urban myth. He told me stories of pick-ups and on occasion some of the adventures he had - being invited to parties early in the morning - about the time he’d normally knock-off for the night. He had a very liberal attitude regarding peoples sexually with the exception of transvestites. He said it was common knowledge (among cabbies) that many of them carried knives, and they were notoriously unreliable as customers. You avoided them like the plague.

It sounds strange though I am sure he believed it to be true. I could not think of a reply as I am positive he (rightly) knew more about London ‘night life’ than I did. To be alone in a cab at night must be a kind of breeding ground for paranoid insecurities

I will admit my reply wasn't great, I was just trying to think of a scenario. I'm not even sure if there is such a thing as 'trans issues' per se as individual cases which will have their specificity. But yes, I concede my example was a bit shit.

Now RedEd, if you are going to castigate all of us, perhaps you should chip in for your own pragmatic advice on how to help BJJ out of is predicament?

Shucks, you're right about what I wrote, it certainly wasn't as condemnatory as I felt it was when I wrote it. I'll try again! This isn't advice, it's what I do with bigots on this level. Anyone who verbalises a desire to see actual physical harm to innocents, I make it known that I oppose their stance, but I tend not to go into preachy mode or sit them down for conflict resolution discussions. If they pose an apparent majority, then as I say, challenge them but don't close the door unless you feel you have to. Personally, I've talked work colleagues around from being vocal homophobes to grudgingly accepting (I'm sure I only played a minor influence), but another fine upright gentleman and NF member saw me suspended for braying him after months of racist comments (him, not me!)
Personally, I don't see why we should see the intolerance of people of trans-gender as special case, bigotry is bigotry and we oppose it.