What are the most important questions revolutionary groups should have answers for?

Submitted by klas batalo on June 10, 2016

Union question? Crisis? Organizational? Gender? Race? National?

Black Badger

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Black Badger on June 10, 2016

It makes me nervous that revolutionaries (groups and individuals) would want or need to have answers. It seems to me that revolutionaries should have more questions than answers. Obviously, revolutionaries should have critical analyses and strategic suggestions based on those analyses, but answers? Makes it sound like if only we have the right program, we will succeed... That's turned out so well throughout history.

The Pigeon

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by The Pigeon on June 10, 2016

I misread your question to having 'kids' in it, and now I am imagining a revolutionary kindergarten class, with David Graeber trying to teach the kids revolutionary theory and practice, and they are just kind of looking on dumbfounded. And Graeber kind of just sighs at the end of the day.

klas batalo

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by klas batalo on June 10, 2016

Black Badger

It makes me nervous that revolutionaries (groups and individuals) would want or need to have answers. It seems to me that revolutionaries should have more questions than answers. Obviously, revolutionaries should have critical analyses and strategic suggestions based on those analyses, but answers? Makes it sound like if only we have the right program, we will succeed... That's turned out so well throughout history.

I would actually agree, but what questions should we be thinking about is more the spirit.

Schmoopie

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Schmoopie on June 10, 2016

Is 'primitive communism' a reality? Is there any basis in science to confirm it?

If a form of communism/anarchy exists in the past then it is easier to imagine a future.

Jim

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Jim on June 10, 2016

I think there are three fairly simple questions which aren't considered enough -

1) What action can we take which will build working class power?
2) What can we do to educate each other and the wider class about revolutionary thought?
3) What skills do our members need to be effective revolutionaries?

Pennoid

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Pennoid on June 10, 2016

I think revolutionaries should have answers for those things you reccomends. The answer to the problem of capitalism? The workers taking power and organizing production around need.

The tricky stuff is in the details. A lot of that is mired in New Left and Comintern politics that have very little basis on reality.

Do workers need political organization? Is unity of the class 'reductionist' or a means for breaking down divisions of nationality, race, gender etc.? How would the political organization of workers be organized internally? How would that affect the revolutionary process?

What does 'working class power's even mean? Taking over the military? A coup?

These are things we can (I think) and ought to have answers for; they form the basis of any argument *for* revolution, and without answering them, revolution is just a mirage, posturing, or sloganeering .

Gulai Polye

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Gulai Polye on June 10, 2016

I think revolutionaries should have an answer towards how do we make sure our revolution, once free from its constraints by the old society, doesnt turn bad and into an unwanted nightmarish monster.

I think a lot of workers are discontented of capitalism but when they look for possible solutions they can only find the revolution. But then revolutions can be scary because even a successful overthrow of the old regime does not guarantee a successful revolution. And so because revolutions are scary their (the workers) discontentment turns into nothing.

the button

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by the button on June 10, 2016

* why what we have now is fucked
* why it doesn't have to be that way
* what we want instead
* how to get there from here
* OK, so that sounds great, so what do I do tomorrow?

cactus9

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by cactus9 on June 10, 2016

What's the structure of your group and how does it work?

Pennoid

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Pennoid on June 10, 2016

My group is a two tiered system of working exchanges between paired members every pairing cycling out every 3 weeks and the focus of every pair cycling every two. Every position is subordinate and directive simultaneously and the decisions, executive, legislative, and judicial are dispersed in a network through telephone, mail,text,tumblr and email listserv (riseup for extra safety). Meetings are not face to face but Skype (or similar service) only on library computers. We meet first and third Mondays and second and fourth tuesdays of each month.

Nah I'm just kidding.

jef costello

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by jef costello on June 11, 2016

Are you talking about internally, in propaganda, in published works, in outreach to the general public etc.?

A lot of good ideas so far. For me the most important thing is making people feel that things can change and that even if they don't that it is worth trying.

Schmoopie

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Schmoopie on June 11, 2016

the button:

* how to get there from here

This is one I have difficulty conceiving.

Gulai Polye

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Gulai Polye on June 11, 2016

Schmoopie

This is one I have difficulty conceiving.

First the working class forms the organisational means that is needed for the revolution. It can be federations and such and anarchosyndicalist trade unions with the specific purpose of overthrowing capitalism and the state.
Once these are in operation the state can be paralysed through a general strike. Now that the state is paralysed it can be put to an end through insurrection. Go to the military bases and grab the weapons that are there and you will see the police run away as the cowards they are. The organisations and trade unions formed in the beginning will come out as the winners of the classwar and whatever is left of capitalist production can be dealt with in a direct way so that it becomes socialist production.

Sleeper

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Sleeper on June 11, 2016

And what do the working class do on the seventh day?

Gulai Polye

Schmoopie

This is one I have difficulty conceiving.

First the working class forms the organisational means that is needed for the revolution. It can be federations and such and anarchosyndicalist trade unions with the specific purpose of overthrowing capitalism and the state.
Once these are in operation the state can be paralysed through a general strike. Now that the state is paralysed it can be put to an end through insurrection. Go to the military bases and grab the weapons that are there and you will see the police run away as the cowards they are. The organisations and trade unions formed in the beginning will come out as the winners of the classwar and whatever is left of capitalist production can be dealt with in a direct way so that it becomes socialist production.

Gulai Polye

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Gulai Polye on June 11, 2016

Sleeper

And what do the working class do on the seventh day?

Well if you wanna start out with an insurrection then go ahead i wont stop you. Just keep in mind that there is logic in what i said

jojo

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by jojo on June 12, 2016

The most important question a revolutionary group should have an answer for is why doesn't the revolution ever happen?

syndicalist

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on June 12, 2016

Sleeper wrote:
And what do the working class do on the seventh day?

They rest.

Schmoopie

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Schmoopie on June 12, 2016

They rest

We never get a rest and that is why we are revolutionary: we need rest.

The most important question a revolutionary group should have an answer for is why doesn't the revolution ever happen?

This one could tempt me to click 'down' but I have my principles: positive vibrations.

mikail firtinaci

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by mikail firtinaci on June 12, 2016

I have been thinking on this same question a lot recently. It is a big question, but I can think of no other way of having a revolutionary identity without coming up with at least a basic answer to these:

1- Why a revolution is possible and necessary?
2- How a revolution can happen?
3- What is the role of a revolutionary in and for a revolution?
4- What is comradeship?

ajjohnstone

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by ajjohnstone on June 12, 2016

[quote]Go to the military bases and grab the weapons that are there and you will see the police run away as the cowards they are.[quote]

Ummm....Do Challenger tanks have a gear stick shift or are these things have automatic gear transmissions these days? Just asking if in case i am needed to drive one when we overwhelm the nearby arsenal, once i Google map where it is and get there with my free OAP bus pass.

Nawww...my take is that come the revolution, much of the police and military might well be on our side and come over to us...but i'm an SPGBer, therefore i am a bit of a wimp when it comes to armed insurrection and barricades.

Getting a bit on in years, too, and reluctant to pass on the responsibility of revolutionary action to younger and fitter comrades. I'm hoping for a cross-generational revolution where we all play a crucial part in the battle of ideas rather than in the battle of the streets. I'd rather throw heavy tome of Volume 3 of Capital at our class enemies rather than a half-brick.

Battlescarred

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Battlescarred on June 12, 2016

Yeah that will really work, won't it , Vol 3 of Capital.

Gulai Polye

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Gulai Polye on June 12, 2016

ajjohnstone

Getting a bit on in years, too, and reluctant to pass on the responsibility of revolutionary action to younger and fitter comrades. I'm hoping for a cross-generational revolution where we all play a crucial part in the battle of ideas rather than in the battle of the streets. I'd rather throw heavy tome of Volume 3 of Capital at our class enemies rather than a half-brick.

If this guy had thrown some books after ISIS he would have gotten nowhere...


https://www.facebook.com/AnarchismandRojava/photos/a.1478915849056900.1073741828.1478873215727830/1741646312783851/?type=3&theater

Schmoopie

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Schmoopie on June 13, 2016

mikail firtinaci:

1- Why a revolution is possible and necessary?
2- How a revolution can happen?

I may be in a party of one here but my conception of working class revolution is that it is happening and has been happening from the inception of class society. The most important task the working class can achieve now is to decide what it wants to replace the world of class society with.

seahorse

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by seahorse on June 14, 2016

Schmoopie

The most important task the working class can achieve now is to decide what it wants to replace the world of class society with.

Will you elaborate on that?

Love your name, btw :D

Schmoopie

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Schmoopie on June 17, 2016

As I said in my previous post I have an unusual stance because I believe, contrary to how things may appear, the working class is pretty much in the driving seat. A few vestiges of old world power still remain but I believe that if we could formulate exactly what we wish the world to be transformed into, then we could set about carrying out the task. I have written my own blueprint for that transformation and it is as follows:

Precepts for future sustainable development:

Local manufacture (hand-production)

Free association (between individuals)

Diversified farming (as opposed to monocultural)

Lifelong marriage (by natural selection)

Gulai Polye

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Gulai Polye on June 17, 2016

Schmoopie:

What?? That has almost nothing to do with socialism ..

Schmoopie

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Schmoopie on June 17, 2016

I am not a socialist.

syndicalist

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on June 17, 2016

syndicalist

What do you think thru should be Klas?

seahorse

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by seahorse on June 18, 2016

Schmoopie

As I said in my previous post I have an unusual stance because I believe, contrary to how things may appear, the working class is pretty much in the driving seat. A few vestiges of old world power still remain but I believe that if we could formulate exactly what we wish the world to be transformed into, then we could set about carrying out the task.

We could set about carrying out the task of abolishing capitalism... but the ruling class would quickly use the cops, prisons, and if need by the military to crush us. We'd need to fight back, encourage mutiny.

I have written my own blueprint for that transformation and it is as follows:

Precepts for future sustainable development:

Local manufacture (hand-production)

Free association (between individuals)

Diversified farming (as opposed to monocultural)

That all sounds nice, but it would not do anything to overthrow capitalism.

Lifelong marriage (by natural selection)

[/quote]

Yikes. That sounds like something out of a dystopian nightmare. Are you saying divorce should be forbidden? That's terrible. Even the idea of marriage doesn't really have a place in a stateless society. And what do you even mean by natural selection in this case?

Auld-bod

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Auld-bod on June 18, 2016

‘Lifelong marriage (by natural selection)’

I thought this was the best part of the revolutionary plan.

All the marriage candidates would declare themselves eligible at a grand selection. Then everyone would be married simultaneously to everyone else. So no silly arguments about who belongs to who. Perfect.

Schmoopie

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Schmoopie on June 18, 2016

Once again I reiterate, it is my perspective that capitalism is far on the road to it's abolition. Throughout this process our struggle has faced the violent reaction of the forces of order, most recently in Syria. As in the past capital will try to reconstruct itself. The question is, will it be successful? If it does, then the whole cycle of valorisation will start again. If not, then there will be a vacuum in which the creation of our future will have space to grow.

I don't know what 'dystopian' means but for me marriage is a pleasure that we have freely (by natural selection) chosen.

Thanks seahorse

Pennoid

7 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Pennoid on June 18, 2016

Wait, the war in Syria is the result of counter revolutionary violence? What revolution?

Schmoopie

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Schmoopie on June 27, 2016

deleted

freemind

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by freemind on June 26, 2016

Why Anarchists have not addressed the attitude of power and dictatorship ie;class power and ridding non class elements of our 'movement'

Khawaga

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Khawaga on June 26, 2016

Non class elements?

syndicalist

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on June 27, 2016

The dictatorship of the proletariat and soviet despotism

Schmoopie

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Schmoopie on June 27, 2016

deleted

Gulai Polye

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Gulai Polye on June 27, 2016

syndicalist

The dictatorship of the proletariat and soviet despotism

The dictatorship of the proletariat is the same as a worker beating up a capitalist until he surrenders and becomes a worker. There is nothing wrong with that.

What The dictatorship of the proletariat is not, is a worker beating up another worker.
A lot of confusion has developed out of this.

soviet despotism is an oxymoron. First despotism requires a despot with absolute power, while in a soviet decisions are made collectively by the workers for the workers. And a soviet doesnt have more power than what the workers has attributed to it.

syndicalist

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on June 27, 2016

Gulai Polye

syndicalist

The dictatorship of the proletariat and soviet despotism

The dictatorship of the proletariat is the same as a worker beating up a capitalist until he surrenders and becomes a worker. There is nothing wrong with that.

What The dictatorship of the proletariat is not, is a worker beating up another worker.
A lot of confusion has developed out of this.

soviet despotism is an oxymoron. First despotism requires a despot with absolute power, while in a soviet decisions are made collectively by the workers for the workers. And a soviet doesnt have more power than what the workers has attributed to it.

I was sorta joking..... it was a play on this pamphlet: https://palmm.digital.flvc.org/islandora/object/ucf%3A4789

cactus9

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by cactus9 on June 27, 2016

jojo

The most important question a revolutionary group should have an answer for is why doesn't the revolution ever happen?

This is the best thing I've ever read on the internet.

Unless you count the French revolution and maybe a few others.

Auld-bod

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Auld-bod on June 28, 2016

cactus #42

I don't think the French revolution happened on the internet.

Auld-bod

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Auld-bod on June 28, 2016

Aha, my mistake!

Serge Forward

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Serge Forward on June 28, 2016

the button

* why what we have now is fucked
* why it doesn't have to be that way
* what we want instead
* how to get there from here
* OK, so that sounds great, so what do I do tomorrow?

Surely the thread should have been locked after this comment, no? The button fucking nailed it.

Khawaga

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Khawaga on June 28, 2016

America.

Gulai Polye

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Gulai Polye on June 28, 2016

Fall Back

Who has the keys to Freedom?

The workers - the problem is they cant find the door

infektfm

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by infektfm on June 28, 2016

will my toothbrush be nationalized post-rev????

cactus9

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by cactus9 on June 28, 2016

Serge Forward

the button

* why what we have now is fucked
* why it doesn't have to be that way
* what we want instead
* how to get there from here
* OK, so that sounds great, so what do I do tomorrow?

Surely the thread should have been locked after this comment, no? The button fucking nailed it.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Serge Forward

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Serge Forward on June 28, 2016

Is this the right room for an argument?

factvalue

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by factvalue on June 28, 2016

Is that the five minute argument or the full half hour?

factvalue

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by factvalue on June 28, 2016

How much is the chips?

factvalue

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by factvalue on June 28, 2016

Which famous opponent of Cartesian dualism insists that there is no point of contact between the extended and the unextended?

syndicalist

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on June 28, 2016

I don't want used socialist toilet tissue

factvalue

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by factvalue on June 28, 2016

Do you know the way to San Jose?

factvalue

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by factvalue on June 28, 2016

Can you lend me a fiver?

syndicalist

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on June 28, 2016

factvalue

Do you know the way to San Jose?

Take a left turn, but watch out for the right deviationism

drakeberkman

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by drakeberkman on June 29, 2016

Am I secretly D.B. Cooper's estranged child?

klas batalo

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by klas batalo on July 2, 2016

Communist Research Cluster

How does one make a revolution against capitalism?

How could such a thing ever come about?

And what is communism?

What would it mean to fight for freedom from domination, as something other than fantasy of rational planning and social harmony?

WithDefiance

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by WithDefiance on July 2, 2016

You people... this threat is extremely tiresome, Someone comes with a serious question and all you folks are jabbering is bullshit and cynical comments.

It's rather depressing almost no-one takes the time to truly answer the question. Maybe it is because you have no proper answer? Rather then finding it a ridiculous question not worthy to answer properly...

syndicalist

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on July 2, 2016

What the heck is the "Communist Research Cluster"?

EDIT: Nevha mind: https://communistresearchcluster.wordpress.com/?blogsub=confirming#subscribe-blog

the button

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by the button on July 2, 2016

Serge Forward

Is this the right room for an argument?

Always.

andersonbiz

7 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by andersonbiz on July 3, 2016

Yes, there is nothing wrong with that here!