Dauve "The Story of our Origins"
Oct 24 2009 18:29
http://libcom.org/library/the-story-of-our-origins-dauve
some questions to initiated interpreters of Dauve.
Quote:
The following revolutionary generation had the advantage of being able to cast a clearer critical gaze on this period, but were to run into an additional difficulty over being able to go back to the source of theories, echoes of which had ended up becoming louder than their initial sound.
*what does it mean? what generation?
*what is the point of Peguy quote?
Quote:
One could apply to the democratic ritual the analysis which Mircea Eliade makes of religion, where periodically one replays the passage from chaos to order, placing oneself out of time for a brief instant as if everything had again become possible. Democracy has been erected in principle in societies where the masters have to meet to share out power by complying with the rules of a game, even if it means resorting to dictatorship ( a permissible form of government in ancient Greece ) as soon as play is obstructed.
what is the point of Eliade's analysis and how is it linked with democracy concept?
thanks.
p.s. there's a dublicate http://libcom.org/library/the-story-of-our-origins-la-banquise . it could be deleted, i think
Oct 26 2009 14:51
#2
I think Davue is referring to Eliade's notion of "terror of history," a theory on the cyclical nature of mythologized history. The wiki page on Eliade (very well-written and exhaustive btw) says:
Quote:
Eliade argues that traditional man attributes no value to the linear march of historical events: only the events of the mythical age have value. To give his own life value, traditional man performs myths and rituals. Because the Sacred's essence lies only in the mythical age, only in the Sacred's first appearance, any later appearance is actually the first appearance; by recounting or re-enacting mythical events, myths and rituals "re-actualize" those events.[94]
Thus, argues Eliade, religious behavior does not only commemorate, but also participates in, sacred events:
"In imitating the exemplary acts of a god or of a mythical hero, or simply by recounting their adventures, the man of an archaic society detaches himself from profane time and magically re-enters the Great Time, the sacred time."[89]
My understanding would be then that like religion, "democracy" re-enacts the idealized mythical moment of ancient Greece (and other mythical moments of liberal history), while allowing people to detach themselves from the actual material reality of "democracy." I could be wrong though.
Wellclose Square wrote:
is it relevant that Eliade (a Rumanian who landed up in the USA) 'flirted' with fascism in the shape of the Arrow Cross(or was that the Hungarian outfit? - either the Rumanian or Hungarian fascists had the word, 'Iron' or something in it's title)? Apologies if this is a diversion from the original question...
He definitely more than flirted with fascism; his mentor was the intellectual leader of Romanian fascism (the blackshirts were called the Iron Guard btw; the Arrow Cross was just one of their symbols), and he himself wrote several nasty pro-fascist anti-semitic articles in the late 30s (made even nastier by the fact that one of his best friends was a Jew). He was also an official legate of the Romanian fascist government to fascist-controlled Portugal. Later, after he emigrated to the States, he tried to shed off his shameful past, and he did recant his involvement with the Iron Guard, but never really lost touch completely with right-wing politics.
His anthropological theories are interesting but somewhat outdated imo.
Oct 26 2009 16:29
#3
Thanks for pointing out the duplicate. Just a note, please feel free to start discussions underneath articles themselves - there are comment boxes just like in the forums.
Oct 26 2009 17:23
#4
Having spent the best part of the last hour and a half trying to post a considered response and losing it all - the perils of wireless connections(how to waste your
day off!) - here's a brutally truncated, trashy response.
Thanks, Vlad, for clarifying what I kind of suspected.
The Myth of the Eternal Return - Eliade wrote that.
Nietzsche appropriated the idea of the Eternal Return, too (see where this is going?)
R G Mendoza contrasts N's appropriation of this ancient Greek doctrine with its outright rejection by Giordano Bruno (references in another post if anyone's arsed) - Whereas for Nietzsche the symbol of his 'eternal recurrence of the same' metaphysics is the ring, for Bruno it has to be the spiral:
'truly the most suitable... representation of the infinite acentric labyrinth... the open, infinite helix stands in marked contrast to the closed finite ring of the cosmic serpent biting its tail, the symbol N regarded as most appropriate for his idea of the Eternal Return'
Funny that. The congruence between myths of recurrent similitude and fascism in contrast to the infinite creation of new forms. (Hope this doesn't get timed out)
Oct 26 2009 19:57
#5
thanks for clarification of eliade's shit, guys. but still didn't get the connection with critique of democracy 
because i didn't get the critique of democracy generally)
Oct 26 2009 21:27
#6
Vlad336 wrote:
Quote:
Eliade argues that traditional man attributes no value to the linear march of historical events: only the events of the mythical age have value.
That little extract from what you rightly say is a well-written and exhaustive Wikipedia article is very revealing, as it aligns Eliade with the current known as traditionalism, among whose most well-known 'participants' have been Rene Guenon and Henri Corbin - both of whom Eliade met - as well as Julius Evola. Evola's ideas were particularly shaped by Guenon's, ultimately becoming a major influence on fascist 'Third Positionism' (and the Bologna bombers) as well as 'New Agey' approaches to 'traditional spirituality' and a 'spiritual aristocracy' - there's a real can of worms writhing here...
Dunno about the point of 'Eliade's analysis' in the context of what Dauve/Barrot was trying to say - it's been years since I've read any of either (Eliade's Shamanism, Barrot's Eclipse, Fascism/Antifascism, etc.), and I wasn't aware that Dauve had used Eliade until now. If it's a matter of 'replaying' the 'passage from chaos to order' is it relevant that Eliade (a Rumanian who landed up in the USA) 'flirted' with fascism in the shape of the Arrow Cross(or was that the Hungarian outfit? - either the Rumanian or Hungarian fascists had the word, 'Iron' or something in it's title)? Apologies if this is a diversion from the original question...