The Leipzig Meuten - anti-Nazi Germans

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Steven.
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Jun 24 2006 10:54
The Leipzig Meuten - anti-Nazi Germans

Just saw this bit on a BBC page:

Quote:
The Leipzig Meuten

In the working class strongholds such as Leipzig, were found die Meuten ('packs'). These shared many similarities with the Edelweiss Pirates, except they tended to come from more organised socialist or communist traditions. Because of this background, they received more official attention. Between 1937 and 1939 the Gestapo estimated their numbers in Leipzig at 1500. There were complaints that many areas were 'no-go' areas for Nazis, due to the abuse and violence meted out by the Meuten.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3059255

Anyone know anything about these groups? Any links/books?

cheers!

ghostzart
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Jun 24 2006 11:42

http://www.politische-bildung.de/Download/download.php?LinkID=890

http://www.geocities.com/kk_abacus/vb/wd3-3ep.html

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Steven.
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Jun 24 2006 11:45

Hey cheers, but er I can't understand the German one... and I know about the Edelweiss Pirates - the beeb site makes this lot sound like a different set altogether?

Battlescarred
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Oct 6 2006 11:21

In Austria there was a youth movement called the Schlurfs (no, they didn't have blue skin) that operated under the Nazis- shared similarities with Zazous, Swing Kids, Edelweiss Pirates etc. I may write a short account about them

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Tacks
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Oct 13 2006 15:20

battlescarred - do you have a link for what kind of music the zazous and pirates listened to? I mean, no offence, but what IS swing? Like Glen Miller?

I really want to know if they had a favourite song.

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Tacks
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Oct 13 2006 15:31

to be a bit more specific, does anyone know what the german youth listened to? Its easy enough to find swing in general.

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Steven.
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Oct 13 2006 15:42
Tacks wrote:
to be a bit more specific, does anyone know what the german youth listened to?

Kraftwerk, mostly. And this guy.

edit - sorry don't mean to derail this embarrassed

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Tacks
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Oct 13 2006 15:46

teh hoff!!

[involuntary knee collapse, fall to floor in worship]

Mike Harman
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Oct 13 2006 16:48
Tacks wrote:
battlescarred - do you have a link for what kind of music the zazous and pirates listened to? I mean, no offence, but what IS swing? Like Glen Miller?

I really want to know if they had a favourite song.

Proper swing wasn't Glen Miller. Glen Miller was commercial pop music for white boys, like fucking Boyzone or something.

Generally it encompasses everything from Duke Ellington, Count Basie, (big bands, but '0000000s of times hipper than Glen Miller), Coleman Hawkins, Billie Holiday, Lester Young (small groups - decent chance of hearing on say a jazz compilation in a random pub). Those were the old-school ones who started out in the '20s and '30s though - the article mentions Cab Calloway specifically:

fwiw he's got a cameo in the blues brothers film.

If it was in the '40s though, you're more likely to be looking at early be-bop - Dexter Gordon, Charlie Parker, Sonny Rollins, Thelonious Monk - which was a lot more abstract, tied into fashion trends, a lot faster music, very tricky high-speed dancing - had a whole subculture attached to it. Some of those people and their associates moved to Paris, and there was a massive black american jazz scene there right through to the '70s.

Thelonious Monk:

Dizzy Gillespie:

I'm pretty sure the Zazous would've been more attached to the second group, but there was a lot of intermingling between them anyway.

PS. if you actually want to listen to it, I'm happy to recommend stuff and it should be a piece of piss to find on slsk.

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Oct 15 2006 15:19

I don't know. I have a bit of a hang up about being a jazz listener. You know... Jazz? Hmmm.

Strictly swing and dance music based jazz. As in, dance music of the time, clearly, not contemporary.

i used to listen to dizzy gillespie as a kid i think, i used to play the trumpet.

Thanks for the reply, i'd love to have a dig for whatever u recommend smile

just to excuse myself, yes i know glen miller is the uber elvis sell out etc. i was just making sure we were talking about the same 'swing' era and music.

[RANT]
sorry if i got the wrong end of the stick, but don't use 'white boys' like its a really sad unhip thing to be btw, we get enough of that from twats in liberal press. 'God, i was at this hip hop concert and it was soooo white!' and so are you, fuck off. And so are the vast majority of hip makers and listeners ffs. 'The Lowingtons' dinner party was the usual staid middle class white affair...' indeed, black dinner parties have limbo dancing and voodoo. We can't dance too, nor jump.
[/RANT]

Mike Harman
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Oct 15 2006 20:22
Quote:
sorry if i got the wrong end of the stick, but don't use 'white boys' like its a really sad unhip thing to be btw

No no, not meant like that. The Original Dixieland Jazz Band, Paul Whiteman, Glen Miller - they made a lot of money nicking other people's stuff, watering it down, and presenting it for white audiences. There were some hip white musicians like Bix Beiderbecke, Frankie Trumbauer, Django Reinhardt (who was playing in Paris at that time) around in the '30s and '40s, and a lot more later on, but Miller wasn't one of them.

It's also worth remembering that a lot of musicians who came up in the '40s with be-bop regarded the previous generation like Louis Armstrong as uncle Toms - they'd go down South, play in hotels they weren't allowed to sleep in etc. etc. made a lot of concessions that the musicians who followed them weren't prepared to emulate.

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Red Marriott
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Oct 15 2006 23:10

It was probably a bit early for bebop records to have filtered over to Europe much, especially during wartime. They stopped cutting many 78s in the US cos the shellac was needed for the war effort.

Django Reinhardt, a gypsy, was playing all through the German occupation of Paris - apparently his popularity kept him out of the camps. The Nazis were also a bit more liberal about things like jazz in Paris. In Germany it was officially banned as decadent 'jungle music' and clubs were monitored by Nazi cultural watchdogs. The musicians would play the tunes straight until the Nazis left then jazz them up. But some officers liked jazz and allowed it discretely.

It's a bit unfair to call Armstrong an Uncle Tom (I know Catch wasn't) - and the boppers played down South too. Charlie Parker liked a white trumpeter so much he took him touring thru the segregated south with his all black band. The only way they could get away with it was to pass the white guy off as a black albino - so they christened him 'Red Rodney'.

Battlescarred
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Oct 16 2006 08:43

There was a book on the German swing movement that came with an accompanying CD. Should still be able to find that
The Heritage label also put out a CD of German swing
Zazous would have listened to Reinhardt and co, Coleman Hawkins etc and Frech singers like Johnny Hess

Battlescarred
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Oct 16 2006 11:31

The great Paris label Fremeaux also put out an anthology about the Zazous
Here is track list
Je suis swing Johnny Hess • Y a des zazous Andrex • Un, deux, trois, swing ! Jo Bouillon et son orchestre • Rythme et swing Marie Bizet • Ils sont zazous Pierre Mingand • Etes-vous swing ? Raymond Wraskoff et son orchestre • Mettez-vous dans l’ambiance Johnny Hess • Rythme Johnny Hess • Rythme Félix Chardon et son orchestre • Il est rythme Johnny Hess • Je suis jitterbug Johnny Hess • Mademoiselle swing Irène de Trébert • Swing troubadour Charles Trénet • Swing rêverie Irène de Trébert • Le Swingalero Fred Adison et son orchestre • Le Swing à l’école Fred Adison et son orchestre • Y a du swing au village Jean Solar • La Poule zazou Charles Trénet accompagné par le quintette Léo Chauliac • Atchoum swing Rogers • Il fait des… Yves Montand • Le Feutre taupé Pierre Roche et Charles Aznavour avec le quintette Henri Leca • Machine à écrire swing Jacques Météhen et son orchestre • Pour danseurs seulement Ray Ventura et son orchestre • Definition of Swing Raymond Wraskoff et son orchestre • Harlem Swing Philippe Brun et son swing band • Swingin’ at the Sugar Bowl The Hot Club Swing Stars • Swinging the Blues Pierre Allier et son orchestre • Swing obsession Jean Yatove et son orchestre de Radio Paris • Chez moi à six heures Django Reinhardt avec Stan Brenders et son grand orchestre de danse • Cocktail Johnny Hess • Goût du jour Noël Chiboust et son orchestre • Surprise-party Etienne “Sarane” Ferret et le Quintette de Paris • Partie de plaisir Gus Viseur et son orchestre • Ambiance (“In the Mood”) Le Jazz de Paris • In the Mood (“Dans l’ambiance”) Tony Murena et son ensemble • Appel au rythme Noël Chiboust et son orchestre • Dansez ! Raymond Wraskoff et son orchestre • Sauts de rythme Maceo Jefferson et son orchestre • Riff 41 Noël Chiboust et son orchestre • Festival swing 1941 le Quintette du Hot Club de France • Festival swing 1942 H. Rostaing et son orchestre • Tam tam Gus Viseur et son orchestre • Gitan swing Tony Muréna et son ensemble swing • Valse swing Jacques Météhen et son orchestre.

Careful, though 'cos it includes songs like by Andrex that sings ABOUt the Zazous rather than music they actually listened to.

Battlescarred
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Oct 16 2006 11:39

Great page about the German swing movement here

http://return2style.de/amiswhei.htm

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Oct 16 2006 12:59

now that is service! Thanks smile