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Wildcat

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Devrim
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Apr 12 2007 18:35
Wildcat

There were a cople of comments on the UK group Wildcat on another thread, just to clear some things up:

Spikymike wrote:
Yes, I forgot a couple reformed Widcat briefly and did indeed produce some useful stuff but appear to have gone all primitivist in the end - perhaps you can go too far in looking for the root of things.

As I remember after the 'split', they picked up a couple of people, and produced a few issues of their magazine, before they linked up with some people in the States, and went primitivist. I think the roots of it were to be found in their attachment to F.Perelman's 'Against History...' .

By the way, only one of the people from Wildcat (MkII) went primitivist. The others had left by then and are still involved in communist politics to a greater, or lesser extent.

Devrim

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OliverTwister
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Apr 15 2007 03:05

How big was Wildcat at its height?

And was there any relation to the German Wildcat?

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fnbrill
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Apr 15 2007 04:24

OK, I'll cop to it. I was their US section.

knightrose
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Apr 15 2007 08:04

At its height, Wildcat had groups in Manchester, Nottingham and I think London. Probably about a dozen to fifteen people. I was never a member. As far as I know only two of the old (real) Wildcat group are still "active".
After the dissolution of Wildcat some of its ex-members formed Subversion with some of us who'd been close to them for some time, or had worked with them before when we were in the Careless Talk group in Stoke. Subversion never had more than nine members. It's amazing what a small group can do!
The other Wildcat was formed after the dissolution and claimed to be the continuation of the old one. (Sorry tsiatko - that's my perception of it anyway).
afaik there was no formal relationship between Wildcat Uk and Wildcat Germany - but they did talk to each other.

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Apr 15 2007 08:08
knightrose wrote:
The other Wildcat was formed after the dissolution and claimed to be the continuation of the old one. (Sorry tsiatko - that's my perception of it anyway).

Two members of the London group decided to continue on the Wildcat project, in a different manor given their size. if memory serves the break up wasn't particularly hostile.

knightrose
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Apr 15 2007 08:13

No it wasn't. But there was a conference that decided to wind Wildcat up. The London people didn't attend. Anyway, it doesn't really matter and it's foolish starting a fight over it. I guess the London people felt it was worth continuing something. I know that Subversion felt they were the real inheritors of Wildcat and were pretty pissed off to see the paper come out again numbered 11 or 12 or whatever, instead of something like "New Series 1".

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Devrim
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Apr 15 2007 16:42
tsiatko wrote:
OK, I'll cop to it. I was their US section.

Yes, I was in it too briefly after the 'split'. I was under the impression that the people in America were a bit primitivist, and into things like 'street theatre'. I was ınder the impression that the one person from London who went primitivist did so at least under their influence. Maybe, I am wrong though.

Devrim

Kevin Keating
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Apr 25 2007 22:10

Back in around 1992, when there were all of three of us in San Francisco producing what turned out to be the two-issue 'zine, 'The Poor, the Bad and the Angry' we were going to form a common group with the two-person London UK version of Wildcat.

It didn't fly. The half of the London group that went primitivists is a bit of a loon, and I think also what you in the UK call an 'anorak.'

The LondonUK Wildcat group briefly hooked up with a hippie space cadet in Portland, Oregon. This individual is an incurable IWW member, and given this individuals' stone flakiness the ersatz contemporary IWW is an appropriate final resting place for them. The current-day ghost of the IWW is a combination of the Cub Scouts and a nursing home for geriatric hippies.

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Apr 26 2007 00:19
Kevin Keating wrote:
The LondonUK Wildcat group briefly hooked up with a hippie space cadet in Portland, Oregon. This individual is an incurable IWW member, and given this individuals' stone flakiness the ersatz contemporary IWW is an appropriate final resting place for them. The current-day ghost of the IWW is a combination of the Cub Scouts and a nursing home for geriatric hippies.

Oh Kevin, you're still jealous that I'm still more popular with the girls! It would be cute if you weren't such a coward.

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Apr 26 2007 01:01
Kevin Keating wrote:
Back in around 1992, when there were all of three of us in San Francisco producing what turned out to be the two-issue 'zine, 'The Poor, the Bad and the Angry' we were going to form a common group with the two-person London UK version of Wildcat.

It didn't fly. The half of the London group that went primitivists is a bit of a loon, and I think also what you in the UK call an 'anorak.'

The LondonUK Wildcat group briefly hooked up with a hippie space cadet in Portland, Oregon. This individual is an incurable IWW member, and given this individuals' stone flakiness the ersatz contemporary IWW is an appropriate final resting place for them. The current-day ghost of the IWW is a combination of the Cub Scouts and a nursing home for geriatric hippies.

*note to all*

this man named kevin is a nutter and has been showed the door many times in my presence...I advise the admins here to do the same if he keeps up with his slanderous bull shit on this website

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Apr 26 2007 01:51
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this man named kevin is a nutter

...but he had an entire section devoted to himself on infoshop.org? How can he be crazy?

Kevin Keating
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Apr 26 2007 02:37

How come losers like tsiatko and the I-dumbell-you-dumbbell-you character x357997 cower behind fake names while hissing little boy's locker room rumors? Are they under the self-aggrandizing illusion that something about them and their harmless opinions might be of interest to the authorities?

If I was a weenie like these guys I'd hide behind a fake name, too.

Kevin Keating
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Apr 26 2007 04:34

Hey, isn't it true that the contemporary version of the IWW's rousing slogan is:

"IWW -- the past has never looked brighter!"

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Apr 26 2007 15:04
Kevin Keating wrote:
How come losers like tsiatko and the I-dumbell-you-dumbbell-you character x357997 cower behind fake names while hissing little boy's locker room rumors? Are they under the self-aggrandizing illusion that something about them and their harmless opinions might be of interest to the authorities?

If I was a weenie like these guys I'd hide behind a fake name, too.

Kevin, please don't make me have to finish this argument again, the last time - intdisnet - you ran away. The only time you've been successful with being a bully is against Chris X, and that wasn't especially honorable - you bullied him and he killed himself. You are so impressive.

Perhaps I do use a psudeonym, perhaps it's because I have a real life, job that I need to protect, 2 kids, etc. You can be free to use your name because you've been in college for - what - 30 years? When you have girlfriends you let them support you, or coasting on your rich DC lawyer daddy's money. You have no real idea of what working class life is like because you've always have the chance to escape. You are poseur and a voyeur upon working class misery.

Your extremeism and militancy are a shell, a personality to cover an empty man, a perfect "Little Man" ala Wm. Reich. Your militant posturings all center around writings, not real action. Even the purported actions are limited to handing out leaflets and wheat pasting MDYEP posters, neither of which have any resonance in the real lives of working people except as a humorous spectacle. The only real discussions you had on the first fare strike were with a bunch of PLPers, whose Stalinism make excellent comrades for the mindset you embraisse.

I could go on, but I have to go get the kids to school and then schlep beer kegs around town. You know, real working people's life.

I would be happy to respond to specific critiques of IWW activity I've been part of over the last 12 years. If you can't, then shove the little baseless snide comments up your pathetic, middle-aged college student , posh-suburban, sorry-for-yourself ass. Or better yet, just fuck off.

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Apr 26 2007 15:52
revol68 wrote:
having a rich lawyer daddy is just such a cliche for american radicals, minus 50 points.

you lose!

Who looses?

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Apr 26 2007 16:14
revol68 wrote:
living off middle class girls is well cool, take 5 points!

Oh, yeah, I don't think either Cathy or Mary were "middle class girls". They weren't girls, and they worked grunt jobs like the rest of us - except Kevin.

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Apr 26 2007 16:23

Now now children - enough with the personal insults.

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Apr 26 2007 16:26
John. wrote:
Now now children - enough with the personal insults.

Kevin started it! ;-P

Mike Harman
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Apr 26 2007 16:44

If you're the IWW member in Portland, then the worst he said "hippy" and "flakey", then you and x357997 got in with "coward" and "nutter" respectively. So cut the personal insults, all of you, thanks.

Spikymike
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Apr 26 2007 20:49

Revol. There is a theory says 'we' already do. I think thats a cross word clue.

Kevin Keating
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Apr 26 2007 22:24

Last I heard, Tsiatko had elected himself shop steward of the anti-depressant takers Industrial Union 450 of Ye Olde IWW. Now it looks like he's off his meds again.

Even in a scene filled with flakes and losers, this speed bump distingushed himself as a zero who could never, absolutely never, come through on any of the stuff he committed to doing. I wouldn't condescend to wipe my shoes on this guy or his worthless opinions.

Mike Harman
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Apr 26 2007 22:35
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So cut the personal insults, all of you, thanks.
nastyned
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Apr 26 2007 23:48
Kevin Keating wrote:
Even in a scene filled with flakes and losers, this speed bump distingushed himself as a zero who could never, absolutely never, come through on any of the stuff he committed to doing.

But who's the sleeping policeman?

Kevin Keating
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Apr 26 2007 23:54

Your point about personal insults is well taken.

Hey Tsiatko, tell everybody about how you once claimed that you "shape-shifted" into being a coyote!

My experience of dealing with you is that sometime before we met, almost 23 years ago, you shape-shifted into being a cabbage and never figured out how to shape-shift back...

Jason Cortez
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Apr 27 2007 00:33

Gee i'm so glad i stubbled on this thread.

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Apr 27 2007 00:51
Mike Harman wrote:
If you're the IWW member in Portland, then the worst he said "hippy" and "flakey", then you and x357997 got in with "coward" and "nutter" respectively. So cut the personal insults, all of you, thanks.

catch, the fact this man is actualy a raging nutter. what i meant when i said he has been shown the door on multiple ocasions i mean he has been asked to leave groups because of his attitude....he shown up to meetings drunk/smelling of wine.....being biligerant with people because they didnt want to work with him....constantly writing slanderous emails....seriously if there was one yank on the admin committee for this group the man would have probably not been allowed membership to the site...

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Apr 27 2007 00:54
Kevin Keating wrote:
How come losers like tsiatko and the I-dumbell-you-dumbbell-you character x357997 cower behind fake names while hissing little boy's locker room rumors? Are they under the self-aggrandizing illusion that something about them and their harmless opinions might be of interest to the authorities?

some people dont like creeps stalking them.......

Kevin Keating wrote:
If I was a weenie like these guys I'd hide behind a fake name, too.

i thought weenies went around keying SUVs????

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fnbrill
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Apr 27 2007 04:48

Kevin, they've asked us to refrain from personal attacks. I shut up, you shut up.

As I said above:

Quote:
I would be happy to respond to specific critiques of IWW activity I've been part of over the last 12 years. If you can't, then shove the little baseless snide comments

Again, if you have specific critiques, start a new thread, post them, PM me to let me know they're there and we'll debate. Obviously, you'll have no trouble putting me in my place. But let's go through the motions.

Kevin Keating
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Apr 27 2007 14:17

Maybe this anonymous zero -- oh, whoops, 'scuse me, "x357997" -- can list a few substantial efforts in the class struggle they've been involved in as a member of that fly-trap of paralytic inertia, the let's-pretend-the-IWW-really-still-exists version of the IWW.

My Yuppie eradication project of eight years ago resonated with more contemporary working people than your nostalgia smelling like ripe cheese nonsense ever will.

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Apr 27 2007 14:40
Kevin Keating wrote:
Maybe this anonymous zero -- oh, whoops, 'scuse me, "x357997" -- can list a few substantial efforts in the class struggle they've been involved in as a member of that fly-trap of paralytic inertia, the let's-pretend-the-IWW-really-still-exists version of the IWW.

My Yuppie eradication project of eight years ago resonated with more contemporary working people than your nostalgia smelling like ripe cheese nonsense ever will.

Then prove your assertions regarding the IWW Kevin. Don't just talk trash, prove it. Give examples. Let's hash it out in public.

If the YEP project resonated so much with working people, Mission is still being gentrified. why are they so passive? Where's the movement? Where was a the action against the "Yuppies"? Didn't happen except the few cases you went out. What are the lasting accomplishments? Nothing. How many folks will work with you these days? No one.

Stop the assertions of grandeur, The YEP is a spectacle all about you. The only reason it's known is because you publicize it to publicize yourself.

David in Atlanta
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Apr 27 2007 15:35
Kevin Keating wrote:
My Yuppie eradication project of eight years ago resonated with more contemporary working people than your nostalgia smelling like ripe cheese nonsense ever will.

Kinda funny. I was in San Francisco for I99. There were painters (not taggers, painters), carpenters, stagehands and dockers from the Bay Area, some from the Mission, in addition to local counter-culture folks of all persuasions. I asked around about the YEP fliers I'd seen, which I thought were rather amusing. Most folks snickered and told me it was a one-person project, good perhaps for humor value but that was all. Now these were by no means all IWW members, but they were attending a conference co-sponsored by the IWW.
Crap, i told myself I'd stay out of this.