DONATE NOW TO HELP UPGRADE LIBCOM.ORG

Can Anarchism work?

124 posts / 0 new
Last post
Lazy Riser's picture
Lazy Riser
Offline
Joined: 6-05-05
Nov 5 2005 04:22

Hi

Quote:
Nah

Oh dear, you're quite right. Where on earth did I pick that up from? I seem to have invented a memory of self-proclaimed Cliffites denouncing State Capitalist analysis and returning to their pre-1950's Degenerated Workers State notions. That's crack for you.

Sorry, and thanks for setting me straight.

Love

LR

Lazy Riser's picture
Lazy Riser
Offline
Joined: 6-05-05
Nov 5 2005 04:31

Hi

That rattled me a little bit, it would seem that I'm not losing my mind after all...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Cliff

Quote:
Since then the consensus in most Trotskyist groups, until the events of 1989-1991, has been that all the states dominated by Stalinist parties and characterised by state planning and state ownership of property are to be seen as degenerated workers' states (The Soviet Union) or deformed workers' states (other Stalinist states, including much of Eastern Europe). In many ways Cliff was the main dissident from this idea although some of his opponents have sought to associate his state capitalist view with other ideas, for example the theory of bureaucratic collectivism associated with Shachtmanite Workers Party in the United States. However Cliff himself was insistent that his ideas owed nothing to those of Max Shachtman, or earlier proponents of the theory such as Bruno Rizzi, and made this clear in his Bureaucratic Collectivism - A Critique.

Still, fair enough.

Love

LR

jef costello's picture
jef costello
Offline
Joined: 9-02-06
Nov 5 2005 15:12
hammerandsickle wrote:

Anarchism won't work simply because, sadly, humanity will always require a form of government, especially if the scale is worldwide. The notion that humanity in the 21st century can develop small communities that are independent but interact with each-other is absurd.

An Anarchist revolution will also never happen because Anarchists refuse to get involved with the political processs, the only method by which a party or movement stands any opportunity of changing society. Leafleting and websites will only get you so far.

Sorry if the quoting is done wrong, new here.

If you have as little faith in Humanity then why don't you become religious? It would solve a lot of your problems, I would suggest the solution in "The Grand Inquisitor" (Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov)

If you don't believe people 'deserve' freedom then wy fuck about talking about it.

I'm a bit short on theory but it seems to me that any exercise of power of others is dangerous, especially this socialist 'for their own good' stuff.

What is needed is self-discipline.

The biggest problem with forming an anarchist or communist society (which in the end should be fairly similar) is that the people in that society must be anarchos or comms, which is why a lot of comms (esp leninists) need that transitory phase to establish control which always turns out to be permanent and never allows itself to be withered away.

I do think its a bit odd H & S, how you posed some fairly reasonable questions then began spouting dogma. Is this a double game or were you in that much need of guidance that you latched on to some vanguardists?

If its the latter I'd suggest that you ignore these "comrades" for at least a few weeks pm someone here who is reasonable (not me I don't know shit and put too much in brackets) and have a little bit of a think about the world in general. Otherwise you'll end up blaming people for their own misfortune and you'll be bitter and reading the ICC newspaper or the Daily Mail before you know it.

nosos
Offline
Joined: 24-12-03
Nov 6 2005 16:16

"Anarchism won't work simply because, sadly, humanity will always require a form of government"

Yet just a page ago this knob was lecturing people about their understanding of Marx. roll eyes