Ivan Illich

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random
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Sep 12 2005 08:53
Ivan Illich

Ive been reading about Ivan Illich and his theories and some articles, and ive just ordered some of his work from amazon. i wondered if anyone here has read illich and what their thoughts were please?

random
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Sep 12 2005 08:54

useful link (also see bottom of page for more links)

meanoldman
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Sep 15 2005 18:24

I printed out his article on Education meaning to read it but never did. And ordered one of his books on Medicine from AK but that never arrived. So really I have know fuck all about what he thinks.

random
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Oct 11 2005 14:10

i need someone to go through illich with! anyone interested in a reading group for some of his essays? starting with "deschooling society"? its available thru amazon (i got a copy for 1p plus postage) or the entire text is free on this page.

opening chapter "Why We Must Disestablish School":

Quote:
Many students, especially those who are poor, intuitively know what the schools do for them. They school them to confuse process and substance. Once these become blurred, a new logic is assumed: the more treatment there is, the better are the results; or, escalation leads to success. The pupil is thereby "schooled" to confuse teaching with learning, grade advancement with education, a diploma with competence, and fluency with the ability to say something new. His imagination is "schooled" to accept service in place of value. Medical treatment is mistaken for health care, social work for the improvement of community life, police protection for safety, military poise for national security, the rat race for productive work. Health, learning, dignity, independence, and creative endeavor are defined as little more than the performance of the institutions which claim to serve these ends, and their improvement is made to depend on allocating more resources to the management of hospitals, schools, and other agencies in question.
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revol68
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Oct 11 2005 14:18

BAN THIS RASCIST!!1111!!!!1111

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the button
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Oct 11 2005 14:23
revol68 wrote:
BAN THIS RASCIST!!1111!!!!1111

Now, now, revol. Introductory thought & all that.

Personally I think Illich is liberal rubbish, relying on the metaphysical notion of a pre-existent autonomous subject that is somehow "oppressed" by the educative process.

Paulo Friere's Pedagogy of the oppressedis (a little bit) better.

But (obviously) the best writer on education (and indeed everything else wink ) is Foucault. tongue

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revol68
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Oct 11 2005 14:25

as far as im aware he educated a few young algerian boys in the fine art of buggery.

Seriously though foucault is sooo fucking overrated!

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Oct 11 2005 15:08