right, i think i'm mainly confused because for the last year and a half i've been concentrating on the history of spanish anarchism, where the term "political" was more or less purely to do with participation in the existing power structure, and therefore anarchists were quite clearly anti-political. but from people talking about political organisation and stuff, i'm guessing that you're using a broader deffinition of what comes under it. so what is it, as opposed to social and economic side of things?
Jun 2 2005 11:08
Jun 2 2005 11:54
Anti-political usually refers to opposition to standing in elections, politic parties etc. The CNT and anarcho-syndicalist unions are political though in the sense that their stated aim is libertarian communism and are specifically anarchist in nature. That is different than a-political which is what the IWW is. That means they have no specific anarchist outlook but oppose parliamentary means for change but have not got a stated aim of libertarian communism.
Jun 2 2005 11:57
Steve wrote:
Anti-political usually refers to opposition to standing in elections, politic parties etc. The CNT and anarcho-syndicalist unions are political though in the sense that their stated aim is libertarian communism and are specifically anarchist in nature. That is different than a-political which is what the IWW is. That means they have no specific anarchist outlook but oppose parliamentary means for change but have not got a stated aim of libertarian communism.
They have a stated aim of the abolition of wage slavery, and the institution of industrial democracy and communal ownership - how is that a-political?
And I thought most of the IWW-US was anarcho-syndicalist anyway (producing Anarcho-Syndicalist Review and hosting it on their website no less).
Jun 2 2005 13:17
ah, ok, i get that then i think. so when applied to an anarchist organisation, the political just refers to the fact it has some sort of coherent long term aims, as opposed to just being a non-hierarchial organisation for improving things in the very short term. seems a bit of a redundant term to me then, but nevermind.
Jun 2 2005 13:21
GenerationTerrorist wrote:
ah, ok, i get that then i think. so when applied to an anarchist organisation, the political just refers to the fact it has some sort of coherent long term aims
'Political' is used in that broad way in anglo-saxon cultures like USA and UK, where as on the European Continent, 'political' means participation in parliamentary games.
Jun 2 2005 20:53
so yet another example of language differences. man, i love linguistics, it allowed me to write an entire essay on harry potter... personally i think the continental european meaning is more useful to anarchists really, as pretty much everything i can see that would some under the "political" in the anglo-saxon meaning of the term fits far better, more usefully, coherently and consistently under social or economic. but any hope that theoretical discourse would try to be clear is obviously a lost course, so i'll just have to remember that next time i'm reading stuff.
Jun 3 2005 10:11
John. wrote:
And I thought most of the IWW-US was anarcho-syndicalist anyway (producing Anarcho-Syndicalist Review and hosting it on their website no less).
There's been lots of discussion an wrangling over the www.iww.org website mentioning ASR, personally i've got no problem withit being there (and yes i am a wobbly, especially on a friday night). FW Bekken IW editor, is also a major player in producing ASR (for anyone interested, it rates up there with direct action, although from a different slant).
As the constitution stands the union itself cannot have any truck with political or anti-political sects. No members can use the union, to back up either. Although i think it's funny, as the union is a-political. I don't want to repeat what john's saying, so i won't.
Can comment on articles and discussions
Well, anarchists typically don't separate the political and economic, cos the division is false.
Also yeah "political" is often used by anarchists as meaning Parliamentary, or in participation in existing power structures, but it's sometimes used more generally too - say in talking about a strike for political reasons, rather than immediately economic ones (though of course the political ones will be about economics too - like striking against a war, say).
Dunno what else to say!