Right to violence

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#32
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Jason Cortez
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Joined: 14-11-04
Jan 3 2006 10:50
Quote:
, they'll be plenty up against the wall afterwards.

But will the members of the Refuge and Sanitary Industrial Union demand special compensation for the clean-up, that's what i want to know. Or will we have let the all dogs become free (from their human oppressors) and feral, they would have quite a feast.

#33
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jef costello's picture
jef costello
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Joined: 9-02-06
Jan 4 2006 00:00
Jason Cortez wrote:
Quote:
, they'll be plenty up against the wall afterwards.

But will the members of the Refuge and Sanitary Industrial Union demand special compensation for the clean-up, that's what i want to know. Or will we have let the all dogs become free (from their human oppressors) and feral, they would have quite a feast.

soylent green

#34
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Beltov
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Joined: 10-05-05
Jan 5 2006 17:27
PaulMarsh wrote:
Am I alone in wondering what the point in having a revolution is unless you are going to shoot a few bastards afterwards?

If I am never going to get the chance to shoot Tony Blair Lemming, I don't think I want to be part of your revolution.

What's with all this blood-lust and thirst for revenge? Won't the knowledge that capitalism has been condemned to the dustbin of history be satisfying enough? Seriously, you pose as alternatives to Trotsky but you end up defending the 'Red/Black Terror' just like he did! Makhno wasn't much better. And on whose orders are you going to run round executing people? An 'libertarian' Cheka?

Pannekoek said that the aim of revolution is to liberate minds, not crush them. I'm with him on that one...

Beltov.

#35
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magnifico
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Joined: 29-11-05
Jan 5 2006 17:36

Trotsky was a reactionary who killed revolutionaries in order to prevent communism from being achieved, which is different from killing tony blair.

And he was joking.

#36
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jef costello
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Jan 6 2006 00:52
Beltov wrote:

Pannekoek said that the aim of revolution is to liberate minds, not crush them. I'm with him on that one...

haven't you seen The Matrix, sometimes you have to kill people to save them. You just need faith comrade.

#37
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lem
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Joined: 25-07-05
Jan 10 2006 17:33

I've been thinking about this. My initial thing towards pacifism was maybe about the feeling of getting angry, but remaining completely in control of it - that used to feel so right. But maybe, that it feels right is no argument that it is right (maybe it was some fucked up God thing - God has given us this emotionally reaction in this way because he wants us to use it). But that we should all be pacifist because if feels *good*, is individualistic toss, and we should not base our ideas around forming a better life for us as individuals. We ought to be vioent if necesity commands it, but remain humanitarian in the fullest sense LOL. Edit: Tho the same argument goes for unnecesary violence. Edit 2: Th maybe both violence and pacifism can be experienced as social *emotions*. So maybe the extreme left is right about participation in world war 2.

#38
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Lazy Riser
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Joined: 6-05-05
Jan 10 2006 17:53

Hi

Quote:
and we should not base our ideas around forming a better life for us as individuals.

Definitely, I can really see that taking off. You should always act on behalf of the working class rather than as an authentic part of it.

I've missed your sarcasm haven't I. Sorry.

Love

LR

#39
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lem
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Joined: 25-07-05
Jan 10 2006 17:54
Lazy Riser wrote:
and we should not base our ideas around forming a better life for us as individuals.

wink Bit slow today wink

#40
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lem
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Joined: 25-07-05
Jan 10 2006 17:57
Lazy Riser wrote:
Definitely, I can really see that taking off. You should always act on behalf of the working class rather than as an authentic part of it.

I've missed your sarcasm haven't I. Sorry.

There is probably at least 2 arguments that could be fleshed out here.

#41
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Lazy Riser
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Joined: 6-05-05
Jan 10 2006 18:35

Hi

Which is why there should be no sarcasm on "Introductory Thought". I shouldn't even be allowed to post on it. Someone ban me from it please.

Anyway... back to Lem, forward comrades a new world of altruism awaits.

Done it again, haven’t I. Sorry. Again.

Love

LR

#42
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lem
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Joined: 25-07-05
Jan 10 2006 20:21

...

#43
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lem
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Jan 10 2006 20:41

...

#44
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luigi the vorpa...
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Joined: 22-11-05
Jan 13 2006 13:46

Hey lem.

Only just joined this conversation, and the last bit of it seems to have got a bit silly, so I'll try and pick up from here.

I'm liking what Beltov wrote about Pannekoek.

The intention of any revolution is to give people the freedo they deserve, not to punish those who kept it away from them.

I don't believe that any of these people are fundamentally evil, they have simply lived their whole lives in a system which benefits them and reinforces their ideas of capitalism, and as such it's no wonder they support that system.

No one person has any right to kill another in any situation. People have a right to defend themselves against violence, as long as the intention of their action is to defend themselves. I don't know, maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but it seems to me that those in charge are just as much under the influence of capitalism and authority themselves, just in a different way to most.