Sympathising with soldiers?

It depends what they are doing.

I think people who have never lived in a garrison town though, can often under estimate how hated squaddies can be by the locals, who soon tire of all the fights and drunkeness.

Can I quote from a Class War member in Deal, where the Royal Marines used to be based

"Everyone pissed themselves when they got blown up, they were a right bunch of bastards"

Having been to Deal recently, they don't seem to be missed!

Even though they serve a prupose contrary to their own interests, I can sympathize with why young males might want to become soldiers. Fuck I remember after I graduated and was sick of still stacking shelves after 6 month, looking through the job magazines and the only ones that seemed to have any security was shit like the army and navy. Job for life (unless you get sent to some hell-hole and blown up ), training all that shite, course it'd be fuckin hell actually doing it but I can see why it seems like a good option to some people.

It's different here though, the army's only visible presence was when they were actually on the job, not like in base towns in england where as you say they can be out pissing off locals on their own time. On their free time here I think they all just hang about private Brit establishments.

Hi

I think soldiers are important. I know one or two socialist soldiers and they’re alright. Recruiting within the armed forces should be a priority for a revolutionary organisation.

Class War used to have subscribers in the Navy, of which they should be justifiably proud. I’d rather have soldiers than students any day.

Love

Chris

We have one member now who is ex-BFPO, and still works for them as a paper shuffler.

Its a tricky one, in some ways no i dont because when they sign up for the armed forces they know what it entails and if they get shot while overseas its basically part of their job and what they should expect, I have no time for squadies, they just mainly look for trouble ( fort george is just outside of Inverness )

But on the other hand its a hard job to do, but its all so insular within the armed forces and the shit that goes down in places like deepcut is horrendous, its also a case of what about their families the worry they must have when they are sent to fight overseas and the feelings they have when one of their own gets killed overseas.

All in all everyone has the choice of what they do with their lives and if being a soldier is what you want to do you have to expect a barrel load of crap is going to come your way at one time or another

It's not as easy as just saying "well they chose it". I don't know the exact demographic make-up of those joining the army but I'd imagine it's usually young males with little qualifications and training who think they'll get some decent training and skills while under the misapprehension that they're doing something worthwhile. Whether you like Michael Moore or not look at the recruitment techniques used by the US army in Fahrenheit 9-11 - it's fair to say that they don't go after college graduates, more likely high-school drop outs whose choices are limited.

A bit off-topic but I was watching 24 (4th season, just finished it, amazing again) and thinking "fuck Jack Bauer would be well useful if he had revolutionary sympathies".

Hi

Indeed. Does the left attract those with poor survival skills or is there something about it which puts off especially resourceful individuals?

Love

Chris

To pick up on what a few others have said, while we don't have a conscript army anymore, I'd say that most squaddies are economic conscripts -- few qualifications, few opportunities, etc. A lot of my mates from school went into the forces (mostly army, a few into the navy), & I'd still call them mates.

As for "sympathising with....." I'm not sure what that means. "Solidarity with...." certainly. Squaddies are treated like shit, in the main. As for officers, well, fuck 'em.

People might be interested to have a(nother) look at Albert Meltzer's I couldn't paint golden angels, which has a good account of his time in the forces, and the so-called soldiers' parliaments. He also goes into what a radicalising experience active service was for a lot of soldiers -- maybe because it's such a vivid & blindlingly obvious example of the way the class system works.

i come from a country with compulsory army and i don't have much sympathy for the soldiers even then

Many good comrades have gone through the army in finland though - even more have been through the jail for being a total objector (usually about 20-30 people per year serve the prison sentence).

Only in a country where young people are conscripted whether they hate the army or not, I sympathise with them, but in Britain they volunteer to fight for that government and should be prepared for that governments actions.

Would you apply the same logic to civil servants/local government employees, etc?

cheers, I agree. have you ever been physically attacked by the bastards in the north of Ireland. I recall when eight members of the IRA were assinated in Loughall by the SAS. youth were on the Falls rd that night having a go at the peelers and brits, throwing petrol bombs at them no problem with that, I happened to be in the area obseving what was taking place when a group of peelers and brits surrounded me where I was assaulted by them. I was not throwing petrol bombs unfortunately.

I have no sympathy for civil servants, I don't see how you could forget your political ideology/allegiances and push paper for anyone, and I live on the Falls Road in West Belfast and grew up when Brits beatin youths was a regular occurence.

I can sympathise with young working class men/women joining the army as a way out of where they live or their circumstances and as a way to get some basic skills. In the US it is becoming the only way some of the poor can get a half decent education. On the other hand there comes a point where personal responsibility comes into play and the excuse of just following orders doesn’t wash.

Sympathy with soldiers? Soon you will all be sympathising with police and capitalists too .

If that was a joke - it was good. If it wasn't - you suck.

ah great a bigot.

Oh course the troops beat people, but what you've got to ask is, do you think most of the troops stationed in the North had a burning desire to be there? or where they more often than not working class kids looking to escape poverty, boredom and crime in the UK.

As for civi servants well that just makes you a fucking retard and perfect fodder for the scum in the INLA who threatened Civil servants during the troubles.

And i don't think most people have political ideologies and allegiances and are more interested in getting a job.

You're a fucking idiot - I work for The Man by doing admin (oh as well the other 25% of the population who work for the State). What so you have no sympathy for me about anything?

Oh and your username is spam - PM me or one of the other admins and we will change it for you.

when some little fenian fuck comes on here talking his retarded bog trotting nonsense.

"boo hoo 800 years of oppression, lets kill the civil servants."

Fuck that shit.

the prick is a bigotted republican fuckwit whose given an ideological defence to the targetting of state workers.

Perhaps it's Anarch's Irish cousin.

What about "no flaming" you hysterical little tart? Still trotting out the establishment line that "the Troubles" are just because those bloody Irish can't stop fighting each other?

And what's wrong with being a republican?

considering i am one of those "irish" and happen to live in the north i think im in a good position to state that yes the Torubles have largely been perpeuated by internal dynamics, with the role of the British state being to attempt to put differing degrees of pressure on both sides at different times. I imagine the British state would love to have unionists tuck in the towel and embrace republicanism and a united ireland.

The British states role in the Troubles on a macro level has generally been one of chairperson, on a micro level of course it has often ben involved in activities that completely undermined it's marco policy. The tension between MI5 and MI6 in relation to the north is a good indicator of this. Mi6 being further removed realised a political solution was the only option whilst sections of MI5 could so entangled they wished to defeat the IRA outright.

lmao!!!!

When did I say anything about being a bigot, I simply stated that I grew up in an environment when Brits beating youths was a regular occurence, you just got your knickers in a twist ya wanker, screamin away like a wee anarchist Paisley, give yer head a shake.

And so now I have to sympathise with soldiers who beat kids to escape boredom? Fuck away off, whether or not they wanted to be there, they seemed to enjoy putting teenagers in hospital.

thats hardly the point thou.

my bigger bone of contention was your comment about civil servants.

Where did I say that civil servants should get death threats? I said I have no sympathy. Why do they deserve sympathy?

What do you mean, sympathy?

Would you condemn attacks on them? Or just not support their strikes or what?

I seem to remember Revol saying once thatwomen activist who throw used tampons at the police deserved 'no sympathy' if they got brutalised by the cops -- and then he explained that this didn't mean he was being a scab and supporting the police, oh no. So maybe Rebelforums is simply dong a similarly nuanced side-step and withdrawing sympathy?

OK, I know s/he isn't, but I couldn't resist a dig. 8)

except i said she should expect no sympathy for whinging about police brutality if the cop had whacked her. It just seems stupid to deliberately provoke a reaction so you can whine about it. If you think the police are the guard dogs of capital and are aware that they do more than help grannies across roads then you should know that if you take out a tampon and smear across them they might crack you. Fuck, if you did that to anyone they would probably crack you.

Actually republicans did that all the time.

"We're at war, we see the RUC, UDR and army as all legitimate targets inside and outside of uniform."

Then when some Provos get shot up driving a digger with a bomb in it at a police station they claim it was a breach of human rights.

Lets get this straight, shooting people out of uniform is fine, but getting shot whilst armed in the middle of an operation is a human rights abuse?

Seems a tad hyporcritical to me.

Not usually one to sympathise with the state but the hypocrisy of republicans is really galling.

Loyalism might have more headcases, pyscho paths and sadists but atleast they are consistent.

Yes would be the simple answer. If you don't have sympathy with kids being sent off to die or be maimed then you're a bit of a cunt no matter what your politics are.

In political terms i agree with lazy risers post earlier.