Demonstration against militarist celebration
Oct 29 2008 11:25
Anarchists organise Anti-War Demonstration
Politicians of all sides show hypocrisy
The Workers Solidarity Movement,(WSM), an anarchist organsiation, will be holding a public demonstration this Sunday in opposition to the Ministry of Defences decision to hold a march celebrating the occupation and continued atrocities in Afganistan
Spokeperson Sean Matthews said today.
“The Ministry of Defence has deliberately sought to manipulate existing divisions within Northern Ireland, in an attempt to bolster support, at any cost, for its massively unpopular wars of aggression. Several council authorities across the UK have refused to allow military parades that essentially seek to legitimise the murder of hundreds of thousand of civilians, and which the vast majority of citizens oppose. We stand in solidarity with such opposition and with over 150 soldiers of the RIR who refused to partake in these war by going AWOL. Serving soldiers should be publicly encouraged and supported to disobey orders and refuse to be cannon fodder in the interests of imperialism, careerist politicians and generals”
Commenting on the reaction from various parties sitting at Stormont, he said
“As our elected political elites continue to squabble over the realm of sectarian politics in the north, this showcase of militarism provides a useful deflection from their failure to improve the lives of working people in the midst of an economic recession. Billions spent on militarism could be spend on our health education and social housing. It is hypocritical and opportunistic of Sinn Fein to oppose this parade considering their eagerness to wine and dine, and roll out the red carpet for their commander in chief George Bush and Gordon Brown during their last visit”
As anti-militarists the WSM reject the scaremongering and gun-boat diplomacy and Matthews pointed out the inconsistency and duplicity from unionist politicians, who he said are “creating an climate of fear and intolerance, and recently traded support for the failed attempt to intern individuals for up to 42 days in back door deals at Westminster so that women cannot have full reproductive rights over there bodies. The hypocrisy of mainstream parties suggests that they all see some lives are worth more than others as unionist support for this march clearly demonstrates”
Referring to others planning to oppose the RIR March, Matthews said
“WSM have nothing in common with rival republican organisations seeking to ‘outgun’ each other over the reactionary mantle of nationalism. The WSM is equally opposed to the oppressive role of imperialism under the British Army and the blight of militarism still endured by working-class communities at the hands of paramilitary organisations”
Calling for cross-community action against both wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the spokeperson commented“We ask anyone who opposes sectarianism, nationalism (either British or Irish) and imperialism, to join us in opposition to the parade this Sunday 2nd November at 11am sharp. Assemble outside the front of Tesco’s supermarket on Royal Avenue in Belfast city centre. Bring banners and make some noise”
ENDS
Contact us at
belfastwsm@yahoo.com
07928479308
Oct 29 2008 13:57
#2
The right choice is to have a lie in and steer well clear of the whole sorry mess.
Oct 29 2008 15:46
#3
I actually disagree,
Instead of shying away from the sectarian debate, we have used the opportunity to get across a different political message. Indeed we got a good bit of coverage in todays Irish News. From our perspective its a win win situation.
Oct 29 2008 18:35
#4
While no doubt there will be more nationalists at this demo than there will be socialists/anarchists it will be easy enough to make the distinction about why people are there and why they oppose the RIR parade. If we are being honest about it most republicans won't be there because they oppose the war. They will be there for their own sectarian reasons and to have a pop at the RIR.
A strong anarchist presence with visible signs of why WE are there and why we oppose both support for the war and also oppose nationalism here at home will make it obvious that we have nothing to do with backward looking nationalists of whatever persuasion. (There are nearly as many varietys of republican these days as there are of Trots!)
Oct 29 2008 18:38
#5
By the way does anyone know of any Anarchist meet ups in Derry. Either formal or informal. Not been very active in recent years but keen to get back involved to some extent.
Oct 29 2008 18:49
#6
Liam_Derry wrote:
By the way does anyone know of any Anarchist meet ups in Derry. Either formal or informal. Not been very active in recent years but keen to get back involved to some extent.
Contact wsm_ireland at yahoo dot com
notch8 wrote:
The right choice is to have a lie in and steer well clear of the whole sorry mess.
You are bringing me.
In fairness to WSM they got a mention on front page of Irish News today as the only group organising a "non-sectarian" opposition to the march so Id say they will be left well alone.
Oct 29 2008 20:33
#7
weeler wrote:
Liam_Derry wrote:
By the way does anyone know of any Anarchist meet ups in Derry. Either formal or informal. Not been very active in recent years but keen to get back involved to some extent.Contact wsm_ireland at yahoo dot com
notch8 wrote:
The right choice is to have a lie in and steer well clear of the whole sorry mess.You are bringing me.
In fairness to WSM they got a mention on front page of Irish News today as the only group organising a "non-sectarian" opposition to the march so Id say they will be left well alone.
quite naive, loyalists generally mush socialists and republicans under the same brush- the fact that we oppose this march for whatever reason is enough. I look forward to meeting ye on sunday
Oct 30 2008 00:01
#8
Just drove home from work, people are out tying yellow ribbons to trees, even though its midnight on the worst night in the world ever...
Oct 30 2008 14:36
#9
Quote:
In fairness to WSM they got a mention on front page of Irish News today as the only group organising a "non-sectarian" opposition to the march so Id say they will be left well alone.
Dont make me laugh. Any opposition to a RIR parade will be jumped on by the boys on the Shankill. Just because the WSM released a statement that was "non-sectarian" (does this mean that republicans are sectarian? That republicans are not attending as part of an anti-imperialist stance?). The WSM need to get their heads along with the SP, SWP and CPI out of their arse and realise that British rule in Ireland established and perpetuated sectarianism in Ireland. Republicanism didnt.
Oct 30 2008 14:39
#10
"it wasn't us wot was sectarian, it was those fuckers"
Oct 30 2008 14:56
#11
Joseph K. wrote:
"it wasn't us wot was sectarian, it was those fuckers"
Course both sides are as bad as the other. The working class Paddie's should just unite and make daisy chains and we'll all live happily ever after.
Oct 30 2008 15:09
#12
This is the best plan I've read so far.
Oct 30 2008 15:12
#13
Connollyite wrote:
Joseph K. wrote:
"it wasn't us wot was sectarian, it was those fuckers"Course both sides are as bad as the other. The working class Paddie's should just unite and make daisy chains and we'll all live happily ever after.
Daisy chains! I don't think anyone was actually suggesting that!
Oct 30 2008 15:17
#14
http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?p=209281&posted=1#post209281
Republicanisms eternal stance; we would engage with the other side and completely undermine the need for a british occupation through united working class struggle, but, eh, you've got your head up your ass and those guys are like - DOUBLE NAZIS!!!
Here Notch, as a prod why don't you just fuck off back to britain or else join a good non-sectarian group like the INLA and fight for socialism?
Oct 30 2008 15:32
#15
weeler wrote:
http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?p=209281&posted=1#post209281Republicanisms eternal stance; we would engage with the other side and completely undermine the need for a british occupation through united working class struggle, but, eh, you've got your head up your ass and those guys are like - DOUBLE NAZIS!!!
Here Notch, as a prod why don't you just fuck off back to britain or else join a good non-sectarian group like the INLA and fight for socialism?
Course republicans need to engage with the Protestant working class. But on a principled basis. What you have are the groups on the left who seek working class unity without raising the national question. Gas and water socialists as Connolly proclaimed them who are based soley on economist terms. It's nothing new. It's a form of political and moral cowardice. Like groups like Socialist Youth, WSM and the CPI argue that they're not republican or unionists, they're socialist! Bollix. Either you're anti-state, i.e. against the oppressive government or you're not.
Would you not agree that protestants/unionists/loyalists have had and continue to have a slim material advantage over other sections of the working class in the North? It's to protect this interest that groups like the UVF, UDA and all the other scumbags were formed. To protect their material interest. Not the abolition of an oppressive state which republicans support!
No one said that protestants should 'fuck off back to britain'. Who suggested that? Working class protestants have to escape the strangle-hold of loyalism. But only they can do that. Who has ever heard of a unionist socialist? Or a loyalist socialist? You're equating Protestantism with loyalism and unionism which is simply not the case.
The second Chief of Staff of the INLA was Ronnie Bunting, a protestant. That's just one example of how not all protestants in the North are sectarian or loyalist or what ever.
Oct 30 2008 15:53
#16
Connollyite wrote:
Course republicans need to engage with the Protestant working class. But on a principled basis.
By this you mean completely on your own grounds. Essentially people buying into the dominant nationalist myth should buy into yours instead.
Connollyite wrote:
What you have are the groups on the left who seek working class unity without raising the national question. Gas and water socialists as Connolly proclaimed them who are based soley on economist terms. It's nothing new. It's a form of political and moral cowardice. Like groups like Socialist Youth, WSM and the CPI argue that they're not republican or unionists, they're socialist! Bollix. Either you're anti-state, i.e. against the oppressive government or you're not.
I am against both states and against both factions of the bourgeoisie, you see something progressive in a united isolated Ireland run as a capitalist state similar to Cuba, I don't. The idea that any of those groups are economist is idiotic, you should retract that. Its an empty statement that simply means we won't get involved in your nationalist quagmire. In reality we are involved in a far broader range of political activities while republicans living in working class areas of the south spend far too much time worrying about whats going on elsewhere.
Connollyite wrote:
No one said that protestants should 'fuck off back to britain'. Who suggested that? Working class protestants have to escape the strangle-hold of loyalism. But only they can do that. Who has ever heard of a unionist socialist? Or a loyalist socialist? You're equating Protestantism with loyalism and unionism which is simply not the case.
Comrade, quite simply, both sides need to move beyond their attachments to nationalism, republican socialists like yourselves work simply within one community with no intention of trying to break into working class protestant areas. Your entire image is based around defending nationalist communities interests rather than those of the working class. You are a historical anomaly, a western developed nation where a few hundred people have guns to defend their respective communities from each other. Its not revolutionary though, its just a barrier to any sort of real working class movement in the North. The only people who benefit from this continued state are the bosses and the armed groups.
Quote:
Connollyite wrote:
The second Chief of Staff of the INLA was Ronnie Bunting, a protestant. That's just one example...It sure is
Oct 30 2008 17:29
#17
Quote:
By this you mean completely on your own grounds. Essentially people buying into the dominant nationalist myth should buy into yours instead.
No by this I mean that any advances towards the protestant/unionist workng class much be principled and it should be let known what republicans goals are. Not that 'we're not loyalist, we're not republican' so we'll just unite a form a socialist utopia. What nationalist myth? The same 'myth' that historical figures like Robert Dudley Edwards et al tried to refute? That Ireland has historically been oppressed and catholics in the north remain subordinate to the loyalist working class?
Quote:
I am against both states and against both factions of the bourgeoisie, you see something progressive in a united isolated Ireland run as a capitalist state similar to Cuba, I don't.
Neither do I. But you fail to see how partition has perpetuated an already polarized society. You think partition doesnt matter when it does, because it lends to the material oppression of one section of the working class and idelogically has kept politics in the south based on civil war politics. Fine Gael and Fianna Fail are both neo-liberal parties. But historically Fianna Fail has gained the most support amongst the working class because they are seen as 'greener'. Even though they couldnt give a shit about the north. It's in their interest to keep partition.
Quote:
The idea that any of those groups are economist is idiotic, you should retract that. Its an empty statement that simply means we won't get involved in your nationalist quagmire.
Socialist Youth are economist. When it comes to the protestant working class they leave poltiics at the door and state that the connection with Britain is not an issue when it is, as I've pointed out above. The CPI are the same. I agree that the WSM come from a different prospective in that they completely reject any fomr of 'nationalism'.
Quote:
In reality we are involved in a far broader range of political activities while republicans living in working class areas of the south spend far too much time worrying about whats going on elsewhere.
On the contrary, any progressive movement of the working class in Ireland has come from the republican tendency and tradition. Fact. Dont forget that anarchism as an ideology eminated from republicanism and the enlightenment, with the questioning of authority in society. Republicanism as an ideology is not nationalism, but you always seem to view the two as the same; The fact that republicans seek to break the connection with Britain is not about national identity rights etc but is viewed as the practical way of organising society ourselves without outside influence. I.e. imperialism.
Quote:
Comrade, quite simply, both sides need to move beyond their attachments to nationalism
How patronising! But predicable. It shows the level of contempt you hold for the Irish working class. The real Irish working class, not some imaginary homogenous bloc which will some day see its faults and repent.
Quote:
republican socialists like yourselves work simply within one community with no intention of trying to break into working class protestant areas.
And tell me, how many members do the WSM have on the Shankill? How many members of the SP, CPI, SWP are from Sndy Row? I'm not a member of the IRSM but they recently had a joint meeting with ex-INLA prisoners and ex-loyalist prisoners in Belfast. Also a recent meeting on the Basque country in an An Culturlann had loyalists attending. While these meeting were not of a poltical nature as such they were a step in the right direction.
But tell me. Would you hold a joint meeting with members of the PUP perhaps? The poltical wing of the UVF, who murdered people because they were catholic.
Quote:
Your entire image is based around defending nationalist communities interests rather than those of the working class.
No, comrade. That is not an image. That is a fact. Republicans defended their communities from attacks from the Brits and loyalist/fascist pogroms. I doubt any republican would apologise for that. The greatest revolutionary movement over the past thirty years was the Provisional IRA. Made up of ordinary working class people and led by ordinary working class people who sought the destruction of an oppressive state and the establishment of a 32 county socialist republic. Did it have many people from the loyalist side? No. Would anyone in the real world expect there to be? No.
Your position is a liberal position epitomised by the Peace People, the CPI, SWP, SP and etc who have no base in either the nationalist working class or the unionist working class.
You are a historical anomaly, a western developed nation where a few hundred people have guns to defend their respective communities from each other. Its not revolutionary though, its just a barrier to any sort of real working class movement in the North. The only people who benefit from this continued state are the bosses and the armed groups.
Quote:
Continued state? And here was me thinking the war was over. Hey, do you work for the IMC by any chance?
Oct 30 2008 17:31
#18
Quote:
It sure is
Maybe the founder of modern Irish republicanism, Wolfe Tone!?! How many will I give until you're satisfied? You can line up with the PD's, Fianna Fail, UVF, UFF, the state both here and in Britain and denounce republicans as 'sectarian' to get a few members if you want but everyone knows that's all for show.
Oct 30 2008 17:36
#19
Maybe the Republican protestors will just wreck the city centre like they've done for years anyway?
Oct 30 2008 20:26
#20
Connollyite wrote:
The greatest revolutionary movement over the past thirty years was the Provisional IRA. Made up of ordinary working class people and led by ordinary working class people who sought the destruction of an oppressive state and the establishment of a 32 county socialist republic. Did it have many people from the loyalist side? No. Would anyone in the real world expect there to be? No.
If you thought the provos were the "greatest revolutionary movement" why did you join the IRSP instead?
Sinn Fein quite obviously have nothing to do with revolution, they took a seat at the table of power as soon as it was offered. According to your own ideology they are now administering British rule. If you honestly hold that they are not just a revolutionary force but the "greatest revolutionary movement" of the last 30 years then you are mad. Vanguardists fighting a war against the british army, which never came close to trying to build a movement of the working class as a class and for its own abolition, have nothing to do with revolution, except of course the aesthetic.
I dont think you understand that people can grow up in loyalist communities, not be loyalists, be working class and still have no time for joining you lot as you are seen as being just as bad. Your movement is splintered to shit and smaller than ever, luckily, at best you can squabble over control of the communities disillusioned with SF. All your macho posturing about being the ideology of the working class is little more than wishful thinking and the notion that the ideas of the working class (who you represent as homogenous far more than me by assuming they are republicans, bollox) are unquestionable is pure farce Would you leaflet against fash who may build a base in a working class neighbourhood or would you not dare to question the ideas of the class?
Jesus, my ma is old as fuck and an RSF but manages a better analysis and argument than this. Essentially you think your history justifies your position justifies your history like some horrid non-sequitor "daisy chain". 
Oct 30 2008 21:23
#21
Irish republicanism/nationalism as it stands now in Ireland IS sectarian. You only have to listen to the narrow minded twats bleating on about the "other community". Each time there is any kind of meagre crumbs to be had such as investment or funding then each side cries on about how "their people" deserve it more etc. "Their people" being nationalists and catholics. You can slabber on all you want about republicanism having a history of protestant participant, it doesn't change the fact that it is also a history that was riddled with bigots, right wing catholic idiots and out and out sectarians. To hold up the INLA as an example of "non sectarian" party is like saying Thatcher was a communist. I assume from your lack of knowledge that you are about 14 years old (at least that would be an excuse!). My 5 year old son has a better understanding of Irish political history than you appear to. Why not just stick you flag up your ass and bury your head up there.
Oct 30 2008 21:26
#22
By the way none of the republican communications about their protest against this parade are concerned with opposition to war in Iraq or Afganistan. It's merely cause it's the Brits marching in Belfast. As for Sinn Fein since they ARE now the british administration in effect they are protesting against THEIR own army. And as for the other 56 varieties of republican well the majority of them couldn't spell Iraq never mind find it on a map. Feck they have more in common with George Bush that I imagined!
Oct 30 2008 21:47
#23
Love Ulster Mark II.
Is Belfast being closed down from saturday night till Sunday night? By this I mean Buses and trains being stopped entering the centre, rumour I'm hearing.
Oct 30 2008 21:50
#24
Liam_Derry wrote:
. It's merely cause it's the Brits marching in Belfast.
I think it's fair enough for Republicans to demonstrate against an Army they precieve to be occoupying part of their country. Can't really pick holes i nthat one Liam.
Oct 30 2008 21:51
#25
Liam_Derry wrote:
well the majority of them couldn't spell Iraq never mind find it on a map. Feck they have more in common with George Bush that I imagined!
Just shows how badly funded catholic schools have been up North.
Oct 31 2008 04:10
#26
weeler wrote:
Here Notch, as a prod why don't you just fuck off back to britain
Actually, this sectarian shithole does make me want to fuck off somewhere else. Im glad youve already done the hard work debating Conollyite, I just want to kick him in the balls.
Oct 31 2008 10:27
#27
kbranno wrote:
I think it's fair enough for Republicans to demonstrate against an Army they precieve to be occoupying part of their country. Can't really pick holes i nthat one Liam.
My point is that it is now THEIR army. THEY are the British administration in Northern Ireland so they are basically protesting against themselves. And as for the dissident republicans well anyone who has ever met any of these retards will be well aware that they are for the most part bigoted sectarians with very little politics and a simple ingrained "them and us" mentality. It is time that the left stopped giving any credence to republicanism and had the balls to stand up for ourselves and put our politics out there as a real alternative to the backward looking fools on both sides.
Oct 31 2008 10:13
#28
I like liam. There is lots of positive stuff in the history of republicanism but its 2008 and long past the time to be appeasing nationalists.
notch8 wrote:
Actually, this sectarian shithole does make me want to fuck off somewhere else. Im glad youve already done the hard work debating Conollyite, I just want to kick him in the balls.
But doing so would just be you defending your slim privilege.
Oct 31 2008 10:30
#29
Liam_Derry wrote:
My point is that it is now THEIR army. THEY are the British administration in Northern Ireland so they are basically protesting against themselves. And as for the dissident republicans well anyone who has ever meet any of these retards will be well aware that they are for me most part bigoted sectarians with very little politics and a simple ingrained them and us mentality. It is time that the left stopped giving any credence to republicanism and had the balls to stand up for ourselves and put our politics out there as a real alternative to the backward looking fools on both sides.
Yeah, but this is best done by involving ourselves in things that unite people and affect people on a class basis, like water charges, for example, rather than something like this, where its absurd to think that a relative handful of anarchists / lefties wont have their voices completely drowned out by the bigots on either side.
Oct 31 2008 10:47
#30
I completely disagree. It is time that Anarchists stopped avoiding issues because they are issues that one side or the other are involved in. We should be out there making our point against this war and pointing out that the issue isn't which side of the sectarian divide people are on but is one of class and freedom. We can't just pick from the issues that confront our class. We need to be seen as a radical alternative which isn't afraid to get stuck in and make ourselves heard.
Is it a good idea for the WSM to publicly disclose their meeting point? The lads in the UDA and UFF wont differentiate between anarchists and 'nationalist' republicans. Especially when they're in opposition to their 'boy's coming home.