Sub cultural gutters?

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Deezer
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Jul 15 2006 15:58
Sub cultural gutters?

A couple of quotes from revol68 this thread http://libcom.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10563 on the north american section

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It's typical of the fucking sub cultural gutter anarchists have found themselves in and its self perpetuating
Quote:
the current composition of "radical politics" be that anarchist, left communist or trot are indicative of their reification into self perpeuating sub cultures.

So my issue is that I have lots of friends who are share alot of my ideas and would like to find out more, however they don't like the whole "anarcho scene" and the tossers that populate it. And if one of my friends decided to go to an anarchist bookfair, they would have all their worst prejudices fufilled about what "anarchists" are like. So I don't think it's inappropriate for some peeople to take issue with bullshit that further alienates radical theory and history from whole demographics and swathes of people, so some attention seeking lil fucktard can inflate their fucking ballsack.

Just to bring this up in the context of Ireland, well Belfast specifically. Y'see I think generalisations have been made by revol68 about the state of the 'anarchist movement' that don't hold water here. There is no movement here that is associated with loons and lifestylists. The nearest we had was probably some of those associated with giros and that couldn't really be taken as part of any 'anarchist movement'. The Dublin anarchist bookfair didn't reflect this sort of lunacy and if Just Books or Organise! hosted an anarchist bookfair in Belfast I'm pretty fuckin sure it would reflect a more sane and, well, workerist outlook.

So I'm asking, specifically in relation to Belfast, what sub cultural gutter revol reckons anarchists have found themselves in? If as I reckon there may have been aspects of this in Belfast in the past I can see no evidence of it now so surely this hasn't been self perpetuating? Surely the type of work Organise! has done in the past and what we want to do in the future has left little room for people to associate anarchism with such lunacy? I mean years of even just attending the Belfast May Day, the sorts of working class struggles we have supported and other stuff have pretty much countered any association between anarchism and this lifestylist and liberal nonsense in at least significant sections of the labour movement here have they not? So surely far from being self perpetuating this can be successfully challenged? What "anarcho scene" is there in Belfast or elsewhere in the north that your friends don't like?

The real danger in these types of generalisations is that even where they clearly cannot be applied to the state of the anarchist 'movement' people use them to justify the abandonment of those tendiencies of working class self organisation that revol68 correctly identifies as being of great significance. Continually venting about stuff like this in such a generalised manner seems to replace fantasy for reality just as much as those yankee loons who were inflating their ballix do.

In solidarity;

circle A red n black star

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jack white
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Jul 15 2006 22:28

Good post.

#3
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Choccy
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Jul 17 2006 00:01

As someone who's only just joining Organise! and has kinda been on the periphery since 2003 anti-war stuff, with prior involvement in Giros I'll be honest and say I'd never felt this sort of alienation from the "anarchist movement" in Belfast as I understand it. Certainly I was hesitant through fear of basically not being well-informed (hey and I still don't have a clue wink ) but any hesitancy on my part to join Organise! had little to do with my perception of Belfast anarchism as being populated by lifestyle pricks.

Giros (and I loved the place) could have been tarred with this brush, as could many of the anti-war demos, but pickets I went on with Organise! last summer weren't of that nature.

I can't comment on the Dublin bookfair (though I heard it was good) but I'd say the London Bookfair (it being my first time last year) may be open to the critcisms Revol's on about. I have an idea who he might be on about as regards interested friends, but I could be way off.

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Al MacShoof
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Jul 31 2006 09:20

The bookfair in Dublin was completely a subcultural event. There was at most 2 degrees of seperation between any two people in that room all weekend (except for the locals who were using the rooms upstairs, and who literally had to hold their noses while passing through the hall, or the barman that night who was spraying air freshener around halfway through the session). It was a social event for a very small (and apparently smelly) clique. We all had very similar views, behaviours, and jargon which differ from the larger culture of this island- therefore a subculture.

This is not a criticism of WSM.

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Shorty
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Jul 31 2006 10:23
Al MacShoof wrote:
The bookfair in Dublin was completely a subcultural event. There was at most 2 degrees of seperation between any two people in that room all weekend (except for the locals who were using the rooms upstairs, and who literally had to hold their noses while passing through the hall, or the barman that night who was spraying air freshener around halfway through the session). It was a social event for a very small (and apparently smelly) clique. We all had very similar views, behaviours, and jargon which differ from the larger culture of this island- therefore a subculture.

This is not a criticism of WSM.

Bahahhahahahahahahhahahaha!!!!!

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Al MacShoof
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Jul 31 2006 11:35

Huh?

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gurrier
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Aug 1 2006 17:18

That's a circular argument. By virtue of having an interest in anarchism, you define the group as being a sub-culture. Until anarchism is the dominant political philosophy of the population, this will always be so, by definition.

The question is whether the people at the event shared a sub-culture above and beyond their politics, a sub-culture that is often to do with drop-out life-styles, punk and so on. I don't think that was the case. The positive reactions from such people as the ISN and Tommy McKearney would tend to support that view since they most definitely do not come from any such drop-out culture.

As for the smelliness thing, it's simply a cliched response that many people use when they see somebody with dredds.

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revol68
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Aug 1 2006 18:18
Quote:
The positive reactions from such people as the ISN and Tommy McKearney would tend to support that view since they most definitely do not come.

Aye Tommy McKearney wouldn't be in any drop out culture, blow up culture maybe but not drop out.

I think the fact Tommy McKearney was there maybe shows just how caught up in the leftist ghetto anarchism still is.

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Deezer
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Aug 1 2006 18:27

Ah, y'see my original point was about sub cultural ghettoes - now leftist ones is another matter entirely.

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