I heard something vague about a motion in some teachers union or somesuch to ban the presence of gardaí in all educational institutions similar to Greece and a lot of other countries, does anyone know more about this?
Think it's as a result of that Nigerian chap being removed from his class and deported in his uniform.
Might be something these youths could organise for?
I heard something vague about a motion in some teachers union or somesuch to ban the presence of gardaí in all educational institutions similar to Greece and a lot of other countries, does anyone know more about this?Think it's as a result of that Nigerian chap being removed from his class and deported in his uniform.
Might be something these youths could organise for?
Souds like a good idea to not let any cops in our schools.
Any developments or info would be appreciated.
INTO Branch Opposes Tactics Of Deportation Cops c/f http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71159&search_text=teachers
Im sure some of the WSM heads here could supply more info..
Hope that helps
INTO Branch Opposes Tactics Of Deportation Cops c/f http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71159&search_text=teachersIm sure some of the WSM heads here could supply more info..
Hope that helps
Cheers guys.
stop inventing daft groups with even dafter names who support the daftest struggles eg basque and catalan nationalism and animal liberation ballacks.
I may slag the WSM of but atleast they aren't the product of overactive imaginations. 
If you think im being a cynical ole fuck, well you'd be right.
TODAY's aim is to unite all young Anarchists, Communists, Socialists, Anti-Racists, Animal Rights Campaigners and Anti-War protesters and try to organise a large group of young politically aware activists in Ireland. We believe in direct action and support such groups as Anti- Fascist Action, Reclaim The Streets, Food Not Bombs and the WOMBLES.
Points of Unity
All members must agree with our points of unity;1. We believe in actively fighting fascists and racists in our community. We will paint over racist graffiti, take down racist stickers and posters and wherever fascists organise we will be there. We believe that we have to confront Irish groups such as the Immigrant Control Platform and the Celtic Wolves before they can build and organise on a mass scale.
2. We are against the illegal occupations of Iraq and Palsetine and we will join any worthy protests and direct action activites against them.
3. We are against the abuse of animals whether it's foxhunting, animal testing or the fur trade. We believe direct action against these inhumane activities must be supported.
4. We support the fights of freedom for Catalonia, the Basque Provinces, Palestine, the Kurds and other regions who live under oppresive and dictatorship regimes. Though we don't believe in extreme or ultra -nationalism, we just want freedom for opressed and illegaly occupied countries.
5. We believe that the youth of Ireland and over the world must unite and fight against all types of oppresion, racism, sexism, fascism, imperialism, chauvinism, and reactionary nationalism.
Do I have to say anything or is this another fine example of autocritique?
stop inventing daft groups with even dafter names who support the daftest struggles eg basque and catalan nationalism and animal liberation ballacks.I may slag the WSM of but atleast they aren't the product of overactive imaginations.
If you think im being a cynical ole fuck, well you'd be right.
Christ sake. A bunch of 15 year olds setting up a political group in my opinion should be welcomed. We all have to start somewhere.
Just because we don't know as much about politics etc.. doesn't mean ya have to slag us off for trying and doing our best.
We believe in actively fighting fascists and racists in our community
We are against the illegal occupations of Iraq and Palsetine
We are against the abuse of animals
- Whats wrong with these beliefs?!?
stop inventing daft groups with even dafter names who support the daftest struggles eg basque and catalan nationalism and animal liberation ballacks.I may slag the WSM of but atleast they aren't the product of overactive imaginations.
If you think im being a cynical ole fuck, well you'd be right.
Look Revol68, apparently you're alright in person (although you'd have to be as you're only three feet tall) but these new kids don't know who the fuck you are ok?
They don't know that you are consistantly bitter and horrible to everyone especially "southern anarchists" based on some grudge you obviously developed a few years ago, which I wish you would just get the fuck over because honestly with such a small membership NOBODY could actually care that much what the WSM said about the "troubles".
When you were 16 would you have taken the initiative to start a direct action group with a broad list of struggles you intend to support?
It's a scary initiative to undertake and with cunts like you attacking them because their ideas aren't exactly perfect is bullshit and could just as easily scare them away.
You aren't active and you aren't relevent I really wish you would just stay out of fucking anarchism.
I'll leave you with a quote by you from your more youthful happy days
Thank fuck their r some anarcho-feminists in dublin. Im in an anarcho-syndicalist group in belfast and a Green Action group, unfortunately there are very few females in the groups. I think the its the same for all the left although the old left is the worst (maybe its the flat cap and whippet look that puts them off it certainly put me off). any ideas on why the left is still predomitally male??? OH YEAH PISSED ONE NIGHT I GRAFFITIED 'REVOLUTIONARY WOMAN R SEXIER' Ithoughtit was a fine piece of situationst agit-prop but a Trot informed me it was sexist !!! If i was a hetero sexual female i would have wrote revolutionary men r sexier however i can not change my sexuality VIVA ANARCHY!!!! BOLSHEVISM IS FASCISM!!!! !NO PASARAN!
If you respond by accusing me of being a crimethinc kid i'm coming 'round your house.
don't need to accuse of anything crmethinc related, you defended John Zerzan so your autocritique will do.
Aye and when I was a young whipper snapper making drunken posts I still didn't go on about Catalan nationalism or think I could niavely unite the the whole left round a daft activist programme.
Oh and the cynicism was always there, just kept in check then, now im no longer ashamed to say what I really think. green Action for a start was apile of liberal middle class balls which im ashamed i ever gave the time of day to, thou considering it mostly consisted of sitting in the pub it wasn't too bad.
and jesius h christ im fucking scundered about that post, i mean theres nothing in it i actaully renounce just the tone.
Oh and the cynicism was always there, just kept in check then, now im no longer ashamed to say what I really think.
Autocritique?
I think you are ashamed to say what you really think, you've allowed your cynicism to define who you are, you couldn't say anything positive anymore even if you wanted to.
oh no, i can say poitive things and often do. But another umbrealla group set up to unite the "left" is nothing to be positive about, infact it's just depressing that we are still stuck on this idea of uniting "activists".
Autocritique is something some genuis made up to describe WOMBLES communiques ie they are so shit they critique themselves, it's a double jibe cos the WOMBLES love to sound intellectual by poorly co opting Italian autonomist terminology.
But another umbrealla group set up to unite the "left" is nothing to be positive about, infact it's just depressing that we are still stuck on this idea of uniting "activists".
They're young and in no way stand any chance of uniting the left, the left doesn't even need to unite it needs to die, you could tell them this in a nice way and urge them in the right direction or you could just be a cunt.
Autocritique is something some genuis made up to describe WOMBLES communiques ie they are so shit they critique themselves, it's a double jibe cos the WOMBLES love to sound intellectual by poorly co opting Italian autonomist terminology.
Autocritique - Definition; Se trouve volontiers des défauts ou des faiblesses.
Some wombles (one?) are Italian Autonomists as such I imagine they might sound somewhat like Italian Autonomists. But let's not bring that funny bunch into this.
the wombles are not Italian Autonomists, there is one Italain guy in them who likes to think he has a grasp of autonomist marxism but he clearly doesn't.
As for the TODAY group I wouldn't be so harsh if they didn't a) sound like a group made up for Brass Eye, b) support basque and cataln nationalism c) mention animal rights.
If they dropped this shit i'd have been nicer, i would still have thought it daft but atleast a step in the right direction. This is a step backwards.
xeirecorex could you please explain the appeal of Crimethinc and all that other post leftist nonsense with those brats down south? It really puzzles me.
xeirecorex could you please explain the appeal of Crimethinc and all that other post leftist nonsense with those brats down south? It really puzzles me.
too many zines not enough books?
I dunno, you seem to think the levels of "crimethinc" are higher than they are, it's not popular in Dublin at all. It was in the autumn of 2001 when the crimethinc kids passed through dublin but since it has been totally dismissed for what it is.
As for post-leftism etc.. Well maybe you could explain the appeal of 19th century philosophy and how it's in any way relevent to the world we now live in?
I'd say anarcho-communism is the most popular brand down here (wsm) then the rest tend to be into a Situationist, Autonomist, Insurrectionist sort of anarchism. Maybe a few syndicalists or class struggle types knocking about too.
It's not as bad as you seem to think.
dear oh dear, this seems to be verging on the realms of constructive conversation. The world turned upside down indeed 
no, thats good. but now I've pointed it out someone's bound to spoil it.
pished, me, I've only had too pints. celebrating a little fascists out campaign victory - we have successfully got the Ulster Nationalist Alliance (ex WNP) postal address shut down this afternoon. Great what a wee bit of direct action can do.
Cheers;
sam, don't mind revol, a.k.a. Anarcho Taleban High Priest. While is has brilliant politics and is usually right (except when it comes into ending industrial exploitation of animals), he is also not a very nice individual and enjoys conflicts and attacking people who are even slightly different from him. Sadly he will most likely change his politics soon and will continue to attack everyone who has his current politics with the same vigour.
But it is not easy to be young, highly educated, passionate and always right. Such a burden.
Autocritique is something some genuis made up to describe WOMBLES communiques ie they are so shit they critique themselves, it's a double jibe cos the WOMBLES love to sound intellectual by poorly co opting Italian autonomist terminology.
I afraid revol that you may have met your match when it comes to being a pseudo-intellectual wanker.
Autocritique was not a term developed in recent years. It was a term used and popularised by Louis Althusser, a French avidly pro-USSR bolshevik.
revol I'm worried about you because a hell of a lot of your posts read extremely althusserian. I even remember on some post either here or on enrager you mentioning that him in a very positive light.
Anyway, Althusser was, truth be told, no great intellectual and the fact, revol, that you can use obtruse language really doesn't impress anyone.
revol68 wrote:
Autocritique is something some genuis made up to describe WOMBLES communiques ie they are so shit they critique themselves, it's a double jibe cos the WOMBLES love to sound intellectual by poorly co opting Italian autonomist terminology.
I afraid revol that you may have met your match when it comes to being a pseudo-intellectual wanker.
Autocritique was not a term developed in recent years. It was a term used and popularised by Louis Althusser, a French avidly pro-USSR bolshevik.
revol I'm worried about you because a hell of a lot of your posts read extremely althusserian. I even remember on some post either here or on enrager you mentioning that him in a very positive light.
Anyway, Althusser was, truth be told, no great intellectual and the fact, revol, that you can use obtruse language really doesn't impress anyone.
Well actually the first time I heard autocritique it was in relation to a WOMBLES communique entitled without irony i may add "Percarity Lexicon"
It was used by someone as a jibe at their fawning over autoreduction.
As for Althusser and my suppoused fondness for him, well I suppouse I have been pretty sycaphantic;
yeah that has always been my problem with the situationists, the idea of an essential essence and real unmediated "desires". Crimthinc take this shit to its logical conclusion and so end up being patronising lil middle class white kids telling everyone that thier real desires are dumpster diving, getting dreadlocks and squatting.Now Althusserian structuralism is just the flip side of this, it removes the subject and replaces it with essentially a reflection of the structure, of course we are left with the very basic question of what the fuck creates the structure? Structuralism tends to see the overarching social structure as essentially coherent (just like bourgeois functionalist sociology) and unified. As such is essentially just a rehashing of the objectivism of the second international only in the trednier structuralsit rhetoric of semiotics. If the subject is nothing more than a one dimensional reflection of the status quo then what is the dynamic force in history, Althusser as a good party member knows exactly what it is, its the forces of production. This of course leads us to ask the question, "well did the fucking tools make themselves?", or where they not the product of a subjects socially produced desires!
Oh course Althusser is no Bernstein and realsies that such fatalism would make the party superflous to the development of communism, so Althusser he makes a niche role for "scientific knowledge". The workings of the social order as a whole can be only be known to theory; as far as the practical lives of individuals go, ideology is needed as a kind of imaginary map. These individuals may alos have access to a scientific knowledge of the social world; but they cannot practically exercise this knowledge in the dirt and heat of everyday life! Communism therefore ceases to be about the the practice of the working class but rather is a scientific theory devised by an intellectual elite, who unlike the workers are able to rise above the petty day to day realities of base interest of the workers, and so see's the interests of the class as a whole. This is essentially just a pretentious justification of Lenin's theory of "trade union conciousness" as set out in WHAT IS TO BE DONE?
The subject of course is a product of the social relations but those relations are fluid, fragmented and contradictary not a totalised, self contained and internally rationale structure. It is these contradictions that open up the potential for change, it is the distance between reality and our desires, between the what is and what we know can be that acts as the driving force within society. Rather than passing judgement on the present from some scientific summit, as Althusser would have it, or from from primordial ahistorical "essence" or "desires", as Debord suggests, a revolutionary critique installs itself (or rather is already part of the programme) within the present oredr to decipher those fault lines and contradacitions, were the ruling social logic presses up against its own structural limits, it seeks to occupy a system from within in order to expose those points of impasse or indeterminacy where the governing conventiond begin to unravel and decompose.
I'm slightly lost...
revol was doing his usual thing of acting the condeseding little prick with out ever explaining why he's better than everyone else. In this case he was attacking TODAY for well he hasn't really said apart from something along the lines of 'TODAY are shit becasue they're not as theoretically developed as I am.'
I replied by pointing out that the ivory tower revol has built around himself isn't as strong and as beautiful as he likes to think it is. I thought that revol was also lying by using an old outdated leninist concept and pretending it was a new fresh anarchist one. (The concept being autocritique). I was mistaken as revol has attested. (However seeing as that Althusser only ever wrote four major books; For Marx, Reading Capital, Lenin and Philosophy and Elements d'Autocritique. I am quite baffled as to how an intellectual like revol who is so familiar with Althusser could be unaware of Autocritique being an Althusserian concept).
This might all seem quite irrelevant. But, in fact it is a rather round about way of confronting revol's condescending, dissmissive, condemenatory attitude. An attitude that revol seems to believe is justified because he's oh so clever and everyone is stupid stupid stupid.
After reading revols post we seem to have extremely similar politics and read the same books. But regardless of how big the words are in the books we read 
that doesn't justify either of us being dismissive. Especially not of young libertarians trying to get organised and informed. Now, I'm not saying I'm never a prick. In fact I often am, especially on the internet, I enjoy making fun of trots and other 'marxists' who don't read marx, but even so I don't do that all the time. Unfortunately revol does spend all his time on radical forums malking fun of other radicals. He does this in a similar fashion to me, he says you havn't read the books I have, you don't understand things like I do. I'm clever clever clever and you're stupid stupid stupid. Often, as with his 'debates' with joeblack, by calling joeblack stupid he only makes himself look stupid and worse.
My point isn't to comdemn revol or say that he is a prick (in fact it was me that told xeirecorex that he's quite sound when dealt with face-to-face). My point is that being theory savy doesn't make you a good revolutionary, good revolutionary action makes you a good revolutionary. And being theory savy definitely doesn't make you some kind of revolutionary demi-god who decides the worthiness of other revolutionaries.
What I'd like to see is for revol to stop being the internet prick of Ireland and start getting involved in building a revolutionary movement in Ireland (or Ireland and Britain if he'd prefer, or just Northern Ireland if he'd prefer that). I'd like revol to stop condemning and dissmissing people and to start trying to understand people, reachin out to people. I mean it is possible to be compassionate and understanding while being intransigent.
I hope that clears things up. If the Althusser thing confuses you, just believe me when I say that Althusser was a very influtential authoritarian french prick, and it's well dodgy for anarchists to be, as revol put it, 'sycophantic' with regard to Althusser of all people.
out of interest who are you?
im a complete cock to joe black because I despise his piss poor analysis of the north from the perspective of the pale and his twisting intellectual dishonesty.
And to be honest my having a pop at TODAY was before I knew the actual age of them (i assumed they were 18 or something). And you've got to admit the name is like something out of Brass Eye. Im sure the guys involved in it are lovely and all, but surely it should not need pointing out that trying to unite the left is not only unbelievably niave but undesirable.
As for being involved in a revolutionary movement in Ireland, well to be honest I don't see any revolutionary movement, I just see an activist ghetto for the most part and have no desire to engage in activism out of guilt.
But really it has to be acknowlegded I have an almost irrational hatred for southerners sticking their noses into the northern question. Especially when they are so arrogant as to dismiss the views of those libertarian communists living there and who come from both communities.
I would also ask when exactly have i had a go at someone for having read less? Believe me I know people who have read a shit lot but couldn't recognise a critical thought if it kicked them up the arse.
oh aye and again, do i know you?
and i've only read Althusser briefly, if I remember correctly his writing is soo fucking awful, most of my understanding of Althusser has come from secondary sources, both pro and anti. What strikes me about Althusser is how unprofound the fuckwit is. He is mostly just reworking Gramscian ideas into a more explicitly Leninist "trade union consciousness", the fact he does so under the trendy label of structuralism seems to be the only thing of interest.
im a complete cock to joe black because I despise his piss poor analysis of the north from the perspective of the pale and his twisting intellectual dishonesty.
I don't particularily like the way joe enters into on-line debates myself. He's a lot less intransigent in person. (Wow I never thought I'd use that word twice in such a short space of time).
Im sure the guys involved in it are lovely and all, but surely it should not need pointing out that trying to unite the left is not only unbelievably niave but undesirable.
Yes but almost every-one who gets involved in anti-capitalist activity starts off making that same stupid fucking argument. It's a fairly easy argument to dismiss but a reason for your dismissal should be given. For example 'Yeah lets unite the left and then we can nationalise everything and create a one party state while at the same time smashing the nation-state - that makes sense'.
As for being involved in a revolutionary movement in Ireland, well to be honest I don't see any revolutionary movement, I just see an activist ghetto for the most part and have no desire to engage in activism out of guilt.
A small movement - that's true - but to be fair what's the alternative? Sit back, moan about the fact that nothings happening and wait for the rest of the proletarait to spontaneously reach high levels of class consciousness? Maybe occupy yourself in the mean time going on a site that describes itself as a 'libertarian communist community & organising resource' and use this forum to attack anyone who is in the 'libertarian communist community' and is actually doing some 'organising'? I hate to tell you revol but organising has be done by someone it doesn't happen itself.
But really it has to be acknowlegded I have an almost irrational hatred for southerners sticking their noses into the northern question. Especially when they are so arrogant as to dismiss the views of those libertarian communists living there and who come from both communities.
Yeah this is probably the thing that most pisses me off about the organise document. After a long debate with organise or what was to become organise, I changed my views on the north dramatically. As I think did many people in the WSM. We admitted we'd got a number of things wrong and set about make a number of very large changes to our position paper. (A paper that is supposed to be a basis for theoretical unity not a perfect analysis nor a piece of propaganda). How did organise respond by saying yes well we can read into this document the old document before it was changed and more. The organise document completely fucking ignored the significance of the changes that we did make. Changes that we did make for the most part arising out of debate with organise. It is definitely not the case that we 'are so arrogant as to dismiss the views of those libertarian communists living [in the north] and who come from both communities'. But I don't want to have this same fucking on-line screaming match agian, especially when almost all of us get along very cordially when we meet face to face.
I would also ask when exactly have i had a go at someone for having read less? Believe me I know people who have read a shit lot but couldn't recognise a critical thought if it kicked them up the arse.
I didn't mean that in a literal sense.
oh aye and again, do i know you?
Yeah. George Stapleton is an anarchist charachter from a Liam O'Flatherty novel. (I think using the name is funny but that's probably just me). I'm the WSMer who got the plane back with you from the bookfair and I went out drinking with you on the friday night.
and i've only read Althusser briefly, if I remember correctly his writing is soo fucking awful, most of my understanding of Althusser has come from secondary sources, both pro and anti. What strikes me about Althusser is how unprofound the fuckwit is. He is mostly just reworking Gramscian ideas into a more explicitly Leninist "trade union consciousness", the fact he does so under the trendy label of structuralism seems to be the only thing of interest.
ditto.
High School students struck and marched across Germany yesterday in protest against classroom overcrowding, lack of teachers, and the pressure of examinations.
Thompson brilliantly explores the changing relationship to time in class society, describing the change from 'time passed' to 'time spent'; the class struggle over the creation of "the new universe of disciplined time" in factory and school.
What’s up?
After a brief lapse in activity T.O.D.A.Y is back! This revitalization of the group coincides with the start of the school year. We hope to make this the year that the secondary school students of Ireland, get off their asses and get organised.
What we need to do?
We need to forge links with other organisations, get involved in worthy campaigns and help build Irelands only direct action orientated youth activist group.
What you can do?
We need all the help we can get. If you are an experienced campaigner or activist please e-mail us with any advice or tips for our group and also if you are a teenager who is involved or wants to take further and more direct action against such issues as war, racism and animal cruety, please also e-mail us.
Website – freewebs.com/todayeire
E-mail – todayeire@hotmail.com
Cheers,
Sam
(T.O.D.A.Y)