IWW (Sab) cat fight
Jan 26 2008 12:33
#62
Thug, you make JB look mature (and that's quite an accomplishment!) 
Jan 26 2008 17:25
#63
Randy wrote:
Thug, you make JB look mature (and that's quite an accomplishment!)
fnbrill wrote:
Hey folks, how about taking the thing over to a new thread - perhaps "(Sab)Cat Fight 2 - Dukeing it out"
Well, to combine these two sentiments... I'll ask a question. Probably more directed to Oliver, but what do I know?
Don't you think that the overuse of a charges system within an organization, even if its just to make a point or draw out a particular issue, is a disastrously awful way for an organization to operate?
I mean, I filed charges against several officers in the UAW, but that was about theft and general incompetence. Our political differences were fought out within the membership by articulating a better vision of the union not by petty charges.
Jan 26 2008 19:28
#64
that's why i said i think JB is naive about charges. I think he thinks its an honest, impartial, and impersonal way to deal with the issues - which is obviously not the case.
Jan 26 2008 19:32
#65
I'm not so sure that being that naive about how one conducts oneself in an organization is really any more excuseable than him doing it out of malliciousness.
Jan 26 2008 20:07
#66
Bekken's mallicious and manipulative. Case in point during the Edmonton Assembly he made a motion for a proposal that he didn't write, and which he actively disagreed with. But making the motion allowed him to control the amendments made. the motion was for a delegated convention, something he adamantly opposes.
Also watch for this strategy. When there's a proposal he disagrees with, eg Charges reform last year, there will be a second proposal made from Bekken, with or without friends and/or his branch. The proposal will be a slight variation of the existing practice. What happens is the two reform proposals divide the reform vote and the status quo remains.
Jan 26 2008 20:51
#67
fnbrill wrote:
Bekken's mallicious and manipulative. Case in point during the Edmonton Assembly he made a motion for a proposal that he didn't write, and which he actively disagreed with. But making the motion allowed him to control the amendments made. the motion was for a delegated convention, something he adamantly opposes.Also watch for this strategy. When there's a proposal he disagrees with, eg Charges reform last year, there will be a second proposal made from Bekken, with or without friends and/or his branch. The proposal will be a slight variation of the existing practice. What happens is the two reform proposals divide the reform vote and the status quo remains.
Thats just old school tactics. If thats what he does he's not naive in any way.
Jan 26 2008 21:02
#68
fnbrill wrote:
Bekken's mallicious and manipulative. Case in point during the Edmonton Assembly he made a motion for a proposal that he didn't write, and which he actively disagreed with. But making the motion allowed him to control the amendments made. the motion was for a delegated convention, something he adamantly opposes.Also watch for this strategy. When there's a proposal he disagrees with, eg Charges reform last year, there will be a second proposal made from Bekken, with or without friends and/or his branch. The proposal will be a slight variation of the existing practice. What happens is the two reform proposals divide the reform vote and the status quo remains.
How did bekken control amendments at GA? Did we somehow end up using "friendly amendments"/"rusty's rules"?
Also the other charges proposal would have been disastrous, the Philly one was preferred by the charges reform committee with certain amendments, and quite a few people were actively supporting it: Jim Crutchfield, PghWob, myself. Are we all extensions of the Philadelphia Conspiracy?
Jan 26 2008 22:32
#69
The arguement isn't about the relative merits of the particular charges proposals.
Quote:
When there's a proposal he disagrees with, eg Charges reform last year, there will be a second proposal made
It is about dividing the reform vote.
The Phily proposal (if memory serves) came outside of the main discussion re. the proposed reforms. Bekken was adamantly against all reforms, then all of a sudden, without any discussion with th wider union a reform proposal comes from Bekken's branch, without his objection. Strange change of heart from a man who was described as "the most stubborn man alive".
Jan 27 2008 14:22
#70
thugarchist wrote:
Randy wrote:
Thug, you make JB look mature (and that's quite an accomplishment!)...Well, to combine these two sentiments...
Don't you think that the overuse of a charges system... is a disastrously awful way for an organization to operate?...Our political differences were fought out within the membership by articulating a better vision of the union not by petty charges.
Don't misunderstand anything i say as a defense of Bekken. I simply think the calls to fisticuffs are playground tactics, and should be discontinued.
Jan 27 2008 15:47
#71
Randy wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
Randy wrote:
Thug, you make JB look mature (and that's quite an accomplishment!)...Well, to combine these two sentiments...
Don't you think that the overuse of a charges system... is a disastrously awful way for an organization to operate?...Our political differences were fought out within the membership by articulating a better vision of the union not by petty charges.
Don't misunderstand anything i say as a defense of Bekken. I simply think the calls to fisticuffs are playground tactics, and should be discontinued.
Edit: Too soon for that response. There's still hope.
Jan 29 2008 19:06
#72
What brill says is true. Spent 10 years hearing JB's crap.
Jan 29 2008 21:08
#73
Wow, amazing story. The really touching part was when you put it all in bold.
Jan 30 2008 07:44
#74
Klahowya Tyee Tin-tin! Laly halo wawa. Alki mika nanitch Oliver yaka tenas wohlat. Yaka munk-chuck kopa memloose IWW.
Jan 30 2008 08:22
#75
Is that Chinook?
Jan 30 2008 08:22
#76
Double post.
Jan 30 2008 11:16
#77
thugarchist wrote:
Is that Chinook?
Yep.
Jan 31 2008 03:06
#78
fnbrill wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
Is that Chinook?Yep.
gangsta!
Is it chinook jargon, or is it chinook proper?
Jan 31 2008 03:42
#79
Mahsh your cultus iktas. Kloshe mamook klatawa. IWW hyas puss-puss -- kloshe mamook IWW. Maybe cultus klatawa, not memaloose or burdash kiuatan.
Jan 31 2008 09:56
#80
Quote:
thugarchist wrote:Quote:
Is that Chinook?Yep.
Quality! 
Jan 31 2008 10:18
#81
thugarchist wrote:
As a way of dismissing Bekken or Alexis politically? Don't be absurd. Anyhoo, even if I had, I have no problem with hypocracy.
Post of the year!
Jan 31 2008 15:02
#82
pgh - I said "on the dead IWWs" not "upon a dead IWW" but good retort!
booey - Chinook proper died in the 1840s (I think) and is refered to as Old chinook. Chinook jargon predates european contact but became a full fledged language (newspapers even!) in the mid 1800s as tribal peoples became integrated into the working class. In all practicality it was the working class language of the PNW, there are even records of white schools in Oregon teaching in it. For example the first IWW local (they were locals then) on the West Coast was a longshore local made up of primarilly workers from local tribes, Chinook would have been the language used of the piers.
Jan 31 2008 17:53
#83
IWW pahtl hyas lazy kwass-man
kopet ikt Bekken
nike wawa enkahnam alki
wawa A.B. weght
kahta ipsoot IWW cultus wawa youtlkut kimtah kloshe wawa skukum cultus mamook tillikums ?
(sick tum tum nika chee mamook Chinook)
IWW halo seeowist kahkwamesachie tum tum.
man Tahoma tyee wawa lemah kahka
nika wawa weght?
halo chako kloshe
IWW yaka wind chako halo
mitlite youtlkut IWW tahmahnawis!
Jan 31 2008 18:21
#84
OliverTwister wrote:
Wow, amazing story. The really touching part was when you put it all in bold.
klatawa kopa Duwumps mesachieman
Jan 31 2008 18:30
#85
Tyee-tin-tin wrote:
OliverTwister wrote:
Wow, amazing story. The really touching part was when you put it all in bold.klatawa kopa Duwumps mesachieman
i dunno, but that doesn't sound complimentary
Jan 31 2008 19:04
#86
perhaps there should be a chinook-only forum...?
Jan 31 2008 19:09
#87
Jan 31 2008 21:29
#88
Tyee-tin-tin wrote:
OliverTwister wrote:
Wow, amazing story. The really touching part was when you put it all in bold.klatawa kopa Duwumps mesachieman
D'let!
Jan 31 2008 21:31
#89
ftony wrote:
perhaps there should be a chinook-only forum...?
D'let!
Feb 1 2008 08:05
#90
Hey folks, how about taking the thing over to a new thread - perhaps "(Sab)Cat Fight 2 - Dukeing it out"