sounds like it might pass a bit of time. i could be up for that.
reading group re-visited..
Glad to hear others are interested. Been a busy week for me, but if anyone wants to start searching, iww.org or this website: http://www.workerseducation.org/crutch/ present some definite opportunities.
Instead of reading about the IWW of the past (though I have some intrest in this) I would be more interested in reading about and discussing problems we face in the IWW today. In particular the "union question" and critiques of syndicalism in general.
This article raises interesting points : http://www.prol-position.net/nl/2007/09/organizing
as does the recent ICC series on syndicalism
Would there be any takers for such a project? I could set up at php forum if there's enough interest.
darren poynton wrote:
Instead of reading about the IWW of the past (though I have some intrest in this) I would be more interested in reading about and discussing problems we face in the IWW today. In particular the "union question" and critiques of syndicalism in general.This article raises interesting points : http://www.prol-position.net/nl/2007/09/organizing
as does the recent ICC series on syndicalismWould there be any takers for such a project? I could set up at php forum if there's enough interest.
Exactly.
I'd rather read anarcho-syndicalist critiques of syndicalism though, like from the French CNT-AIT.
All that sounds good to me. I'm not exactly sure what a 'php forum' is (entirely technologically illiterate), but if you go ahead and do it, it certainly seems like we consensus on moving forward for the reading group.
I only just briefly skimmed over the suggested article, looks pretty good, certainly something i can relate to as American and it does seem to have implications for the IWW as well. Got my vote.
PS Has anyone ever done an online reading group before?
Just a quick note: I do think that understanding the history of our union has a place, if even just for a sense of our history, but certainly to learn from past mistakes and successes. That and the fact the membership of our union is quite young, we don't have the old-timers we used to (no offense fnbrill) and many of us (at least in my experience) don't have to many organizing successes under our belts. A clear understanding of history might be able to offset some of that lack of experience.
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PS Has anyone ever done an online reading group before?
I set one up here : www.theoryandpractice.org.uk/forum
little degree of success, discussion soon petered out. But could easily make it into something IWW specific.
Maybe we should come up with a short list of articles to read and then discuss them as a group. My two suggestions are above, anyone got any more? Would be good to read hostile as well as "friendly" critiques.
With reguards to the history thing, I've just starting to read "the first 100 years" and there are lots of articles online.
Going to post this suggestion on IWW internal email list and see what happens.
j.rogue wrote:
I am definately not discounting the importance of history, but I feel like I have far more opportunity to discuss the I.W.W. in the past than its future.
I think this is sort of a common statement from us younger organizers, but one thing I would say is that most of the studying and discussion about the historic IWW is done by people outside the union. The point in noting this is that I think we would study the history of the union in order to rebuild solidly do the right things and not the wrong things. To use the history as an organizing tool - that would be interesting.
Kizzle wrote:
To use the history as an organizing tool - that would be interesting.
well put, that would be a really cool idea for a workshop or a pamphlet. Maybe something like that could come out of this reading group. Either way, do you have any suggestions for reading mat'l?
ncwob wrote:
Either way, do you have any suggestions for reading mat'l?
As far as history goes I'd really like to read something from Ralph Chaplin's autobiography. I can ask around for suggestions and maybe someone here has some.
As for theory, how about something from these guys:
http://www.sojournertruth.net/main.html
or something else out of the libcom library?
imho - Reading groups on forums are clunky and never seem to get off the ground. Perhaps an iww.org or riseup.net mailing list?
I'd be down to do some reading, but would rather read more practical stuff like "Sweatshop Warriors" or "Singlejack Solidarity". Would make sense seeing as though we are an organization that organizes. I read enough theory as it is and would rather have discussions about things we can apply to our organizing efforts.
I'd like to read stuff my Weir or Glaberman. "The Left-Wing Committeeman" would be a great one.
Also articles in English from the CNT-AIT
http://cnt-ait.info/article.php3?id_article=145 (anarchosyndicalists and professional elections)
I'm on too many email lists as it is - we could always make a sub-forum of "Libcom Wobblies", or even just have a (possibly sticky) thread here
Hope no-one minds me taking a lead on this.
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How does next Wednesday sound?
The next BIROC internal bulletin deadline is 16th Nov, I will send them a note about what we are starting. Would be good to wait until that comes out before we start I think.
Sent follwing message to IWW internal list and BIROC internal bulletin.
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A few of us on the unofficial "libcom wobblies" forum have been discussing the possibility of setting up a reading group to discuss issues around the "union question" and critiques of syndicalism in general.If anyone is interested please email :
darren@iww-norwich.org.uk
Let me know if you'd prefer an email or web based forum!Short list suggested articles for discussion:
Wildcat / Prol-position : organizing http://www.prol-position.net/nl/2007/09/organizing
ICC : What is revolutionary syndicalism www.en.internationalism.org
CNT : why do anarchosyndicalist oppose professional elections http://cnt-ait.info/article.php3?id_article=45
Sam Dolgoff : notes for discussion.. http://libcom.org/library/notes-for-a-discussion-on-the-regeneration-of-the-american-labor-movement-dolgoff-1970sAll the articles are quite short so we could read one a week and take it from there.
Could US based FW's foward message to people on that side of pond?
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Frankly, Singlejack Solidarity is just as "practical" as the stuff I suggested.
I was more replying to the prol-position and workers' history suggestions. The sojourner truth website looks interesting. "Singlejeck Solidarity" was off the top of my head for things I want to reread.
Basically, what I'm suggesting is to look for pieces written by and for people who are organizing. I read enough history and theory as it is.
janky wrote:
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Frankly, Singlejack Solidarity is just as "practical" as the stuff I suggested.I was more replying to the prol-position and workers' history suggestions. The sojourner truth website looks interesting. "Singlejeck Solidarity" was off the top of my head for things I want to reread.
Basically, what I'm suggesting is to look for pieces written by and for people who are organizing. I read enough history and theory as it is.
What's theoretical about the prol-position piece?
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What's theoretical about the prol-position piece?
It is a critique (based upon a theory or ideology) of current trends within the labor movement. But what's to gain --in terms of real world experiences-- from a critique? I think it's a good piece. But, I am suggesting that we have enough criticism, history and theory in the IWW to go around the circle a few times. I would rather see us focus on nuts and bolts type stuff.
If not, oh well. I have plenty of other things I need to be doing. 
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so have we decided on what to start with?
I would suggest that we start with around 8 or so of the shorter texts and just pick one at random each week to read.
Apologies if any suggestions didn't make it on to the list - if people have any more please email me (address above) and I can compile a full list.
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It is a critique (based upon a theory or ideology) of current trends within the labor movement. But what's to gain --in terms of real world experiences-- from a critique?
I think that we have to be careful that we don't end up blindly repeating the methods of the past. Because the "real world experiences" are constantly evolving there is always a need for critique and theory. To seperate "theory" and "practice" is a mistake I think - none of us are doing this for purely acedemic reasons!
janky wrote:
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What's theoretical about the prol-position piece?It is a critique (based upon a theory or ideology) of current trends within the labor movement. But what's to gain --in terms of real world experiences-- from a critique? I think it's a good piece. But, I am suggesting that we have enough criticism, history and theory in the IWW to go around the circle a few times. I would rather see us focus on nuts and bolts type stuff.
If not, oh well. I have plenty of other things I need to be doing.
Respectfully, bullshit. Its a critique of lefties who think that 'organizing' will bring the millenium. Thats certainly present within our organization, it would be practical to deal with the critique in order to inform our practice.
Since I'm a big dork and I spend my Saturday nites studying and playing around on libcom, i happened to check out some of the original libcom wobblies post and found a short lived thread suggesting we start a reading group. Sounds like a pretty good plan to me. I especially like the idea of checking out historical IWW documents. Any takers?...