Well, I'm a relatively well paid teacher. I'm sorry to say that capitalism still messes with my head. Capitalism makes you work long hours, dress the way you don't want to, stops you having control over your wqorking environment, subjects you to the orders and control of others. It leads to exhuastion so you can't enjoy your "free" time. It makes you ill. The list just goes on. The cage, though, is painted a prettier colour.
Can I stop being a slave?
"Who wants a world in which the guarantee that we shall not die of starvation entails the risk of dying of boredom?"
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"Who wants a world in which the guarantee that we shall not die of starvation entails the risk of dying of boredom?"
I could be convinced. Chuck in sex with lap dancers and you're on. There's more chance of being killed crossing the road than dying of boredom. I recommend our friend becomes a wealthy engineer. Oh yes.
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Basically, I'm trying to figure out how capitalism fucks people living in first-world countries in ways other than material poverty.
“Capitalism” doesn’t do anything. We do it to ourselves like disturbed cripples. And stop worrying about the third world, it’s for losers. Jesus. Tony Wilson. Say no more.
John. wrote:
And of course if you earn more money you revise your lifestyle and expectations upwards so you end up about as broke as before.
Yeah that is exactly what happens - good hit John.
There is no freedom at any level within capital - we need free of the whole kit 'n' caboodle. 
redyred wrote:
Yes it is. If you're on a decent level of pay and broke, the chances are you're just crap with money.Having more money does objectively make you happier.
Yeah, while it's still crap having to work, having money is nice, you can buy things with it and everything.
redyred wrote:
Yes it is. If you're on a decent level of pay and broke, the chances are you're just crap with money.Having more money does objectively make you happier.
Not nec for two reasons:
Like Knightrose you might have more responsibilities now like mortgage and kids that you might not have had earlier when you were on worse money.
Also - reason deux! - many jobs within capital "reward" you the greater money only if you socialise, dress, etc, drive a car in line with your peers.. if you didn't they would have a quiet word with you.
But you are also right that peeps are crap with money - most are - but you have to bear in mind many are burdened with the increased aspirations J points out which is why a lot of peeps get into debt nowdays,, yeah they are a bit gullible no doubt .. but when it comes to offering easy credit etc and dangling these carrots/aspirations the system exploits human weakness and then when peeps are in trouble of course it becomes a different story..they are at the sharp end now!!
Worrying about bills and stuff tho which i have to do - along with a lot of peeps on here! - is hell - i don't think anyone is gonna argue with that. But most research on money bringing happiness is that it doesn't generally after a certain level. i.e. happiness levels don't keep increasing with money after certain needs are met.
This may address the q set in the OP - in the first world with wealthier peeps capitalism continually tells us we need more to "keep up" - and you can never catch up - ever! Cos the goalposts will always be moved. Always! To keep you wanting/consuming more.. An ever hungry beast! Capital needs lack to function - and in absence of an actual material practical lack a perceived lack will do.
Love
LW XXX
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Like Knightrose you might have more responsibilities now like mortgage and kids that you might not have had earlier when you were on worse money.
I suppose. But they are optional. Besides I’m not talking normal money, like knightrose's measely 30K or so. If you make serious mortgage paying off cash, you’re just a useless loser if you end up skint. Unless you really wanted too, I guess.
Lone Wolf wrote:
Like Knightrose you might have more responsibilities now like mortgage and kids that you might not have had earlier when you were on worse money.
Yes, because obviously poor people can't afford to reproduce. 
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Also - reason deux! - many jobs within capital "reward" you the greater money only if you socialise, dress, etc, drive a car in line with your peers.. if you didn't they would have a quiet word with you.
Unlike low paid jobs, where you can just do whatever you want.
knightrose wrote:
and hey, I'm not whinging about how much I earn. Just pointing out the other ways you can't stop being a wage slave.
Don't get me wrong, wage labour is shit whether you're on 30k or 12. It's fair enough to point that out, but it's a bit silly to say that having more money isn't a good thing in a capitalist society (not that you were, but some people appear to be).
madashell wrote:
Lazy Riser wrote:
measely 30K or so
You're an odd one, Lazy.
I thought he was a teacher?
I'm becoming a proper wage-slave next week and I'm looking forward to having some cash to spend after 4 years living off of the scraps of SolFed. I may even go for the fabled three meals a day.
madashell wrote:
Refused wrote:
I thought he was a teacher?Nah, Lazy Riser's the CEO of a major puppy kicking corporation.
Or so he'd like us to think. I bet he's a big softy really
I like to think he teaches children how to be condescending obscurantists for some extra pocket money.
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I thought he was a teacher?
knightrose is a teacher. I'm a "business analyst". Imagine Castoriadis during his OECD phase, that's me that is.
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I like to think he teaches children how to be condescending obscurantists for some extra pocket money.
It does happen. Important public service. All I'm saying is that not everyone revises their expectations upwards, I mean I could afford an extra (modest) home, but I don't feel the need to buy another just to keep up.
redyred wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:
Like Knightrose you might have more responsibilities now like mortgage and kids that you might not have had earlier when you were on worse money.Yes, because obviously poor people can't afford to reproduce.
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Also - reason deux! - many jobs within capital "reward" you the greater money only if you socialise, dress, etc, drive a car in line with your peers.. if you didn't they would have a quiet word with you.Unlike low paid jobs, where you can just do whatever you want.
Eh?? Course poor peeps can should and do reproduce.. but this costs no? All i am saying is that once you have kids you therefore have greater expenses and therefore can be earning more but in receipt of no extra disposable income. And if you are not earning more it is even worse cos yer minimal resources are stretched still more.
Of course you can't do what you want in low paid jobs!!! I am just saying that different pressures arise in different jobs within capital. And that it is ALL shit!! And that everyone is trapped...
Please bear in mind the OP q which was "other ways than material" in which capitalism shafts you.. impying the poster wanted to know about some of the other stuff John and i mentioned.
Love
LW XX
madashell wrote:
knightrose wrote:
and hey, I'm not whinging about how much I earn. Just pointing out the other ways you can't stop being a wage slave.Don't get me wrong, wage labour is shit whether you're on 30k or 12. It's fair enough to point that out, but it's a bit silly to say that having more money isn't a good thing in a capitalist society (not that you were, but some people appear to be).
Heh you meant me! I am saying it is ultimately a poisoned chalice - however pretty the chalice. 
Lazy Riser wrote:
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I thought he was a teacher?knightrose is a teacher. I'm a "business analyst". Imagine Castoriadis during his OECD phase, that's me that is.
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I like to think he teaches children how to be condescending obscurantists for some extra pocket money.It does happen. Important public service. All I'm saying is that not everyone revises their expectations upwards, I mean I could afford an extra (modest) home, but I don't feel the need to buy another just to keep up.
Lend us a couple of grand, mate.
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Don't get me wrong, wage labour is shit whether you're on 30k or 12. It's fair enough to point that out, but it's a bit silly to say that having more money isn't a good thing in a capitalist society (not that you were, but some people appear to be).
It'd be pretty stupid to glorify low pay, wouldn't it? The whole point of class struggle under capitalism is to get a bigger slice of the cake. Sadly some people, not you, do seem to suggest that's the case.
Lazy Riser wrote:
It does happen. Important public service. All I'm saying is that not everyone revises their expectations upwards, I mean I could afford an extra (modest) home, but I don't feel the need to buy another just to keep up.
Last time I saw you you said you were skint and looking at having to get a real job. What happened? Did you find little Mo and pimp her out or something?
Knightrose
Not sure if you meant me - but ultimately the point is to be in charge of the bakery no?
No more scrabbling over mere slices. 
I am meaning that people who don't "need" it are also wanting more cake as that is the psychological aspect of how capital ah.. motivates..
Would I still be a wage-slave if I became an engineer?
Right now I'm 16 years old, in high-school, and spending my summer "vacation" working full time at a print shop so that I can afford to go to college. If I succeeded in becoming an engineer and made good money, would capitalism still mess with my head the way it does now?
Basically, I'm trying to figure out how capitalism fucks people living in first-world countries in ways other than material poverty.