thanks, will have a look see.
Information on trans issues
Also, with regards to the socioeconomic breakdown, here are the results of a study. MTF means male-to-female transsexuals, or transwomen. FTM means female-to-male transsexuals, or transmen.
Table 1.1 - Sociodemographic Profile of 392 MTF Individuals
Characteristic MTF=392
Median Age 34 yrs (18-67)
Race/Ethnicity
African American 104 (27%)
Latino/a 106 (27%)
White 106 (27%)
Asian & Pacific Isl. 49 (13%)
Native American 24 (6%)
Born Outside the United States 126 (32%)
Gender Identity
Transgender 145 (37%)
Female 135 (34%)
Transsexual 100 (26%)
Other
(i.e. bigender, cross-dresser) 12 (3%)
Sexual Orientation
Heterosexual 263 (67%)
Bisexual 82 (21%)
Gay/Homosexual 15 (4%)
Lesbian 21 (5%)
Asexual 10 (3%)
Current Housing Status
Stable Housing 207 (53%)
Unstable Housing: SRO 105 (27%)
Unstable Housing: Streets/Shelters 51 (13%)
Unstable Housing: Crashing 29 (7%)
Median Monthly Income (range) $744 ($55-7,346)
Education
< High School 112 (29%)
High School/GED 110 (28%)
Some College 117 (30%)
College Degree + 52 (13%)
History of Incarceration 255 (65%)
Incarcerated Past Year 121 (31%)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Table 2.1 - Sociodemographic Profile of 123 FTM Individuals
Characteristic MTF=123
Median Age 36 yrs (19-61)
Race/Ethnicity
White 82 (67%)
Latino/a 14 (11%)
African American 12 (10%)
Asian & Pacific Isl. 9 (7%)
Native American 4 (3%)
Born Outside the United States 17 (14%)
Gender Identity
Transgender 46 (37%)
Male 41 (33%)
Transsexual 26 (21%)
Other
(i.e. bigender, cross-dresser) 10 (8%)
Sexual Orientation
Heterosexual 43 (35%)
Bisexual 41 (33%)
Gay/Homosexual 22 (18%)
Lesbian 15 (12%)
Asexual 2 (2%)
Current Housing Status
Stable Housing 97 (79%)
Unstable Housing: SRO 7 (6%)
Unstable Housing: Streets/Shelters 10 (8%)
Unstable Housing: Crashing 9 (7%)
Median Monthly Income (range) $1,100 ($100-6,000)
Education
College Degree + 57 (46%)
Some College 48 (39%)
High School/GED 13 (11%)
< High School 5 (4%)
History of Incarceration 36 (29%)
Incarcerated Past Year 6 (5%)
In my opinion there seems to be an over excitement with 'trans issues'. It seems to me that everybody who doesn't identify with them is being called some sort of 'phobic'. To me this seems like identity politics taken to its extreme.
Personally I don't identify with them in any way. To me it seems a very strange thing. That doesn't mean that I don't condemn police harassment of them (remember İstanbul is the trans capital of Europe), but it is a part of the problems that all sex workers have male, or female, gay, straight, or Trans.
I notice that Revol has been criticised for the gender he refers to these people by. Thankfully, we don't have to worry about all of this he/she/it linguistic nonsense here.
Devrim
why are yo pushing this angle when the whole discussion was what defines trans and how sex changes and the like relate to ideas about gender.
It doesn't exactly take a fucking rocket scientist to know that transexuals are very likely to have a hard time of it, nor was I ever arguing that they should be discriminated against, rather I was arguing that sex change operations, hormones and rationalisations of 'i was born in the wrong body' or 'i've always felt like woman/man' are tied up with and reproduce some very reactionary ideas about gender.
are you going to enter the discussion or patronise me with shit i already know?
Let's start here.
Quote:
Transsexual: Having a gender identity that does not conform to the gender assigned at birth. Usually
someone who seeks to live full-time as another gender, especially through surgical or hormonal treatment to
obtain desired physical characteristics. Often used in conjunction with the terms FTM or MTF.
This is reactionary wank, it strengthens the link between 'gender' and 'biology'. Why would one need to mutilate their body in order to live as another gender role?
Once again I ask why we would have little time for an argument that a women needs breast enlargements to feel more like a women, or even more absurdly if she claimed she always knew she was born in the wrong body and it was a mistake she had bee stings instead of a set of Dolly Partons?
revol68 wrote:
why are yo pushing this angle when the whole discussion was what defines trans and how sex changes and the like relate to ideas about gender.
i was under the impression that the 'discussion' was about the women's caucus projects
Quote:
It doesn't exactly take a fucking rocket scientist to know that transexuals are very likely to have a hard time of it, nor was I ever arguing that they should be discriminated against, rather I was arguing that sex change operations, hormones and rationalisations of 'i was born in the wrong body' or 'i've always felt like woman/man' are tied up with and reproduce some very reactionary ideas about gender.
you weren't arguing revol, you were ranting. you may have seen some sense in it but i couldn't. I don't think anyone would have a problem with you arguing on an intellectual level about whether or not transsexualism relies on essentialist notions of gender but your contribution was a childish rant that belittled people's experiences. grow the fuck up.
also lets not forget the massive surgical industry and it;'s apologists who pimp their shit.
How is any less predatory and disgusting to prey on peoples ambiguities about their gender to pimp invasive, expensive surgery than it is to prey on peoples insecurities about their looks?
Like I said the questioning of this whole discourse and industry should not be mistaken for an attack on the people who use it, anymore than a critique of the boob job industry should be mistaken as an attack on those women who have had surgery.
ronan wrote:
revol68 wrote:
why are yo pushing this angle when the whole discussion was what defines trans and how sex changes and the like relate to ideas about gender.i was under the impression that the 'discussion' was about the women's caucus projects
Quote:
It doesn't exactly take a fucking rocket scientist to know that transexuals are very likely to have a hard time of it, nor was I ever arguing that they should be discriminated against, rather I was arguing that sex change operations, hormones and rationalisations of 'i was born in the wrong body' or 'i've always felt like woman/man' are tied up with and reproduce some very reactionary ideas about gender.you weren't arguing revol, you were ranting. you may have seen some sense in it but i couldn't. I don't think anyone would have a problem with you arguing on an intellectual level about whether or not transsexualism relies on essentialist notions of gender but your contribution was a childish rant that belittled people's experiences. grow the fuck up.
how the fuck did it belittle peoples experiances you try hard male feminist fuck wit? Is it anything like how i reproduced male sexual violence by having a cheeseburger two hours ago?
I was being deliberately flippant in my post to highlight the arbitrary and absurd nature of essentiallised notions of gender implicit in what goes under the 'trans' label. Of course simple minded muppets like yourself are unable to grasp that and instead just see 'an attack on a poor oppressed group'. It's like you see an 'issue group' (gays, ethnic minorities, women) and then pick up on the fact the tone of the piece isn't dripping in the correct amount of tocuhy feely wank, that it isn't being respectful enough to these identities and hey presto it's a transphobic rant.
yeah, it was just my touchy feely wank that thought you were acting the prick you silly bugger. you may think you're being oh so clever in your 'ironic absurdist humour' but it's politically and practically counterproductive if you drive away the people whom you should be discussing the issues with.
anyway, im sorry to derail the thread, you had a comment there that had political substance, let's leave the recriminations and fistfights till next time we see one another.
Where does ronan use the word 'transphobic' or 'phobic' or the phrase 'an attack on poor oppressed groups'? Ctrl+F in Firefox musn't be working for me.
And revol, you think having a cheeseburger is reproducing male sexual violence, jaysis, you're nearly as bad as dara! 
Anyway, what ronan said, there is political substance to your comments, so lets deal with that. Also, shouldn't this be in thought.
Surgery Pimps? You act like there's a dude on the street corner handing out sex change operations. Try years and years of mandated psychotherapy, tens of thousands of dollars, and years simply dressing the part. Yeah, quick easy sell that is. People really just jump into it...
Did you actually say "mutilate the body"??? Why are you giving such wieght to the body AS IS? Don't you see the problems with THAT position? Talk about essentialism.... People COULD chose to simply inscribe their current body with different meanings. and many trans people do. (for instance many FTM don't opt for surgery) Some decide to sculpt their body and significations, in accordance with their desire and with the level of technology. SO WHAT? Why do you find that so difficult to deal with and then cloak your neurosis about it in theorectical babblings?
Also as a gender normative gay man, i must say that i'm sick and tired of pushy trans people demanding instant understanding of their statistically very small experience instantaneously; or pushing for heavy focus on trans issues in contexts where it is absurd, like the anti-war movement. I don't push my gay agenda on the picket line except where its relevant, and neither should they.
There seems to be some questions regarding trans issues on the thread in the wobblies forum, so I thought I might throw out a link if people are interested. May not be the most comprehensive source, but it's a start. Here