Jack 'As hard as steel, as clear as glass'
Jul 13 2006 06:09
Jack, I presume that your tag line 'As hard as steel, as clear as glass' is supposed to be a quote from Gorter. I think it is actually, 'As hard as steel, as pure as crystal'
Devrim
Jul 13 2006 09:47
#2
Devrim wrote:
Gorter.
Who?
Jul 13 2006 09:47
#3
Jul 13 2006 09:53
#4
I would have used "as hard as glass, as clear as steel" myself.
Jul 13 2006 10:31
#5
John. wrote:
http://www.libcom.org/library/herman-gorter
Cheers John.
Jul 13 2006 10:45
#6
The Workers' Council will one day become the essence of all humanity on earth.
As when the power of brightest sunlight is perceived in a great sheaf of
flowers.
They are the highest form of together-being,
They are the overthrowing of all alone-being.
In them alone each man, woman and gentle child
can find the single aim of ages, humanity's spirit itself.
The Workers' Councils, then, are the light.
They are peace, tranquility and balm for all,
They are truth and the fountainhead of truth.
They are the foundation-rock in the great universe
of humanity, the nerve centre of all labour
They mean joy for humanity - they are the light.
(Herman Gorter: from the poem: "De Arbeidersraad" ("The Workers' Councils")
Jul 13 2006 11:27
#7
Does it sound any better in Dutch?
Dev
Jul 13 2006 11:33
#8
hm, the one on Marxist Internet Archive - http://www.marxists.org/archive/gorter/1920/open-letter/ch05.htm translates it as "clear as glass".
As does the version on libcom library - http://www.libcom.org/library/open-letter-to-comrade-lenin-gorter
Clear as glass sounds better, too.
Jul 13 2006 11:53
#9
Jack wrote:
Clear as glass sounds better, too.
You just like it because it rhymes with arse.
Jul 13 2006 11:56
#10
Jef Costello wrote:
Jack wrote:
Clear as glass sounds better, too.You just like it because it rhymes with arse.
Only if you're middle class. 
Jul 13 2006 12:14
#11
the button wrote:
Only if you're middle class.
Crap, I've been outed.
Jul 13 2006 12:17
#12
Class rhymes with ass. Which is how non linguistic nationalists say it.
Jul 13 2006 12:23
#13
Jack wrote:
Class rhymes with ass.
But then saying ass instead of arse is a cunt's trick, and no mistake.
Jul 13 2006 12:25
#14
the button wrote:
But then saying ass instead of arse is a cunt's trick, and no mistake.
Whatever grandad. 
Jul 13 2006 12:27
#15
The original says "Wat wij hier nodig hebben, is juist een kern, zo vast als staal, zo klaar als kristal."
Which translates to:
"What we have need for here is just such a kernel, as true as steel, as clear as crystal."
(Source: http://www.marxists.org/nederlands/gorter/1920/1920brieflenin.htm)
Quote:
Clear as glass sounds better, too.
The consonance of the two k words is much more aesthetic to me. Note that Dutch (and German) have two words for glass. In Dutch it is "kristal" and "glas" (and in German it is similarly Der Kristall and Das Glas).
Here is the difference between the two in terms of percent lead content:
Quote:
Benaming Loodgehalte
Glas minder dan 4%
Kristal meer dan 10%
Loodkristal minstens 24%
Hoog loodkristal meer dan 30%
The reason he probably wrote kristal instead of glas is because crystal glass is technically clearer than glass itself, due to the higher amount of lead oxide added to it in the manufacturing process. So it is technically correct to use crystal, and also (imho) more poetic.
As for the translation to "true as steel," I have heard the word "true" used in this sense in medieval talking so I used it here to mean "fixed, reliable, stable," which is what the Dutch word "vast" means. It is similar in etymology, most likely, to the somewhat archaic word "fast" in English, as in "to hold fast" or "fasten." But it does not mean "hard" except in the sense of stability.
Jul 13 2006 12:27
#16
get hard as steel on his middle class arse
Jul 13 2006 12:37
#17
I'm happy to stick with the standard English translation, thanks.
Jul 13 2006 12:39
#18
Quote:
Class rhymes with ass. Which is how non linguistic nationalists say it.
Nestor says...
Which I believe closes the matter, arseface.
Jul 13 2006 14:28
#19
Quote:
You just like it because it rhymes with arse.
haha, i didnt actually have a clue what you were on about, my metermorphosis into a fully fledged prole is complete 8)
Jul 13 2006 14:50
#20
So Saii and the button, do you seriously say "arsehole" rather than "asshole"?
Jul 13 2006 14:53
#21
Who the fuck says "ass"? 
It just sounds so affected to me when I hear it come from British people.
Jul 13 2006 14:54
#22
Yes. "Asshole" is a seppo-lovers' affectation.
Jul 13 2006 15:26
#23
Saying "Arsehole" sounds even posher than saying class to rhyme with arse.
Jul 13 2006 15:28
#24
Jack wrote:
Saying "Arsehole" sounds even posher than saying class to rhyme with arse.
Maybe it does when you say it. But then everything sounds posh when you say it.
Jul 13 2006 15:32
#25
Surely more "gay"?
Jul 13 2006 15:34
#26
Same thing. Read some Marx, for fuck's sake.
Jul 13 2006 15:37
#27
Agh, you cock, my plan was to follow that post with "...Not that they're any different". But I was distracted by your PM and foiled. 
Jul 13 2006 15:42
#28
Mine's funnier, anyway.
Jul 13 2006 16:38
#29
Lister from Red Dwarf says arsehole, and he's way prolier than you.
Oh god, I just tried to make someone look bad by using a fictional sci-fi character 
Jul 13 2006 16:47
#30
Saii wrote:
Lister from Red Dwarf says arsehole, and he's way prolier than you.Oh god, I just tried to make someone look bad by using a fictional sci-fi character
That and comparing him to the crack addict Craig Charles.
I preferred the version they had in (i think) Wildcat:
'hard as steel, clear as glass, fresh as a daisy.'