now, if you'd told me about this lot 8 years ago!
New Group - Antispe!
Oliver, it says "universal exploitation of animals". So no they aren't right on even one point. What they regard as the universal exploitation of animals can be maintained in a post-revolutionary society.
Don't worry Alan burgerkng and McD's will still be about after the revolution, they'll just have been collectivised. Who gives a fuck about deforestation and shite food when the workers will be in control?
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What they regard as the universal exploitation of animals can be maintained in a post-revolutionary society.
Presumably the slaughterhouse can be collectively run? Sounds like a dream job, post-revolution.
Obviously we'll still need to test out biological weapons in labs, too.
Eta: they could be a bit clearer on it, but the fact is that in capitalist society animals only have value as potential commodities and products. Hence 'universal exploitation'. Eliminate commodity production and you eliminate the basis for animals to only be seen as future profit. That being said the group itself, and the idea of speciesism is clearly bongo.
OliverTwister wrote:
Quote:
What they regard as the universal exploitation of animals can be maintained in a post-revolutionary society.Presumably the slaughterhouse can be collectively run? Sounds like a dream job, post-revolution.
Obviously we'll still need to test out biological weapons in labs, too.
Eta: they could be a bit clearer on it, but the fact is that in capitalist society animals only have value as potential commodities and products. Hence 'universal exploitation'. Eliminate commodity production and you eliminate the basis for animals to only be seen as future profit. That being said the group itself, and the idea of speciesism is clearly bongo.
Eh, why would removing profit alter the fact that people will engage in the wholesale slaughter of animals for food and other products? They will still be regarded as commodities and products. We want a revolution but it ain't gonna be a vegan revolution Oliver.
The slaughterhouse can indeed be run collectively, why wouldn't it? I'd also suggest it'd be more fully automated. Of course when the machinery snarls up no doubt groups like antispe will break in and video it all for us to see how awful it all is. It'll no doubt be compared to the holocaust.
Yer biological weapons comparison just sorta shows that on this one yer completely off the wall mental.
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
OliverTwister wrote:
Quote:
What they regard as the universal exploitation of animals can be maintained in a post-revolutionary society.Presumably the slaughterhouse can be collectively run? Sounds like a dream job, post-revolution.
Obviously we'll still need to test out biological weapons in labs, too.
Eta: they could be a bit clearer on it, but the fact is that in capitalist society animals only have value as potential commodities and products. Hence 'universal exploitation'. Eliminate commodity production and you eliminate the basis for animals to only be seen as future profit. That being said the group itself, and the idea of speciesism is clearly bongo.
Eh, why would removing profit alter the fact that people will engage in the wholesale slaughter of animals for food and other products? They will still be regarded as commodities and products. We want a revolution but it ain't gonna be a vegan revolution Oliver.
The slaughterhouse can indeed be run collectively, why wouldn't it? I'd also suggest it'd be more fully automated. Of course when the machinery snarls up no doubt groups like antispe will break in and video it all for us to see how awful it all is. It'll no doubt be compared to the holocaust.
Yer biological weapons comparison just sorta shows that on this one yer completely off the wall mental.
Eh? I don't assume that nobody's going to eat meat after the revolution. But I was using commodities in the marxist sense, and if there's any type of commodities after the revolution - including animals - then i'd question what type of revolution that would be.
Are you going to work in a collective slaughterhouse? Cause i'd wager a pint that those who are working in slaughterhouses now are not gonna be too excited about the idea of self-management.
Anyways somehow I think that there's gonna be enough ecological catastrophe before and after the revolution that continued widescale production (in the marxist sense) of meat is going to be pretty irrational.
I also think there's some serious philosophical issues with fully-automated slaughterhouses.
Finally, what makes you think that they don't develop biological weapons through animal testing?
Honestly I grew up in place where most meat was processed by small familly operations, one of the more pleasant experiences of my own this easter was cleaning perch my partner and I caught together on a lake.
Hooking an animal on a piece of metal and suffocating it on some ice isn't murder, its good wholesome fun. I don't know if I've ever felt less alienated than when I was catching and preparing my own food, especially when I was up to my own elbows in fish guts and scales.
The problem with slaughterhouses is they are huge dirty and unsafe like most other factories, this doesn't mean producing things, including meat, will stop. I have no qualms about killing and cleaning animals so when the roster comes 'round to do a bit of time squeegeeing some cow guts through a metal grate sign me up! I'm not too squeemish.
Does this mean Antispe is going to picket my house?
I could see the ideas we hold of animals as food/property/commodities or whatever becoming a serious issue after a revolution, hell I'd agree it's one now.I can't imagine that things 'will be the same but we'll be self managed'. People will be more open to new ideas and thinking about things differently, or maybe I'm just an optimist?
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Are you going to work in a collective slaughterhouse? Cause i'd wager a pint that those who are working in slaughterhouses now are not gonna be too excited about the idea of self-management.
Why not? The amphetamines would be free and the masses would still get their fix of E.Coli.
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
Don't worry Alan burgerkng and McD's will still be about after the revolution, they'll just have been collectivised. Who gives a fuck about deforestation and shite food when the workers will be in control?
Bitch please, I'm a taco stand guy. Get with the programme. The only thing they destroy is stomach linings and hangovers.
OliverTwister wrote:
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
OliverTwister wrote:
Quote:
What they regard as the universal exploitation of animals can be maintained in a post-revolutionary society.Presumably the slaughterhouse can be collectively run? Sounds like a dream job, post-revolution.
Obviously we'll still need to test out biological weapons in labs, too.
Eta: they could be a bit clearer on it, but the fact is that in capitalist society animals only have value as potential commodities and products. Hence 'universal exploitation'. Eliminate commodity production and you eliminate the basis for animals to only be seen as future profit. That being said the group itself, and the idea of speciesism is clearly bongo.
Eh, why would removing profit alter the fact that people will engage in the wholesale slaughter of animals for food and other products? They will still be regarded as commodities and products. We want a revolution but it ain't gonna be a vegan revolution Oliver.
The slaughterhouse can indeed be run collectively, why wouldn't it? I'd also suggest it'd be more fully automated. Of course when the machinery snarls up no doubt groups like antispe will break in and video it all for us to see how awful it all is. It'll no doubt be compared to the holocaust.
Yer biological weapons comparison just sorta shows that on this one yer completely off the wall mental.
Eh? I don't assume that nobody's going to eat meat after the revolution. But I was using commodities in the marxist sense, and if there's any type of commodities after the revolution - including animals - then i'd question what type of revolution that would be.
Are you going to work in a collective slaughterhouse? Cause i'd wager a pint that those who are working in slaughterhouses now are not gonna be too excited about the idea of self-management.
Anyways somehow I think that there's gonna be enough ecological catastrophe before and after the revolution that continued widescale production (in the marxist sense) of meat is going to be pretty irrational.
I also think there's some serious philosophical issues with fully-automated slaughterhouses.
Finally, what makes you think that they don't develop biological weapons through animal testing?
Ok, so my bad, I used commodity in a non-Marxist sense. But really the type of animals folk eat are regarded as food, not companions, not separate but equal species, as food. We ever actually get around to being part of a successful libertarian communist revolution then I'm pretty fuckin certain that most people will still regard a hell of a lot of animals as food. Those people should not be denied meat as part of their diet, or have it limited due to some 'philosophical' concern or vegan nutjobs like antispe.
Don't see why we shouldn't have workers control of slaughterhouses given that mass 'production' of meat will still be necessary. I mean I know though, ecological disaster strikes, and in Ireland we'll have the central committee will tell the farmers to stop grazing cattle, feeding slop to pigs, stop letting sheep eat our depleted supplies of, er, grass, and to stop sending them to slaughterhouses so people can be fed.
Yer biological weapons comment was off the wall not because I don't think they test biological weapons on animals now but because it is a non-sequitur. Because I believe we will still need slaughterhouses in some form post-revolution it does not at all follow that I believe we should have biological weapons. Sure if we did we should test them on animals not humans but we need food and we don't need biological weapons.
Edmonton I mean that all sounds great but given that we aren't looking for a vegan revolution I'd assume that most people will still be looking to eat meat and that kill and gut yer own, while awfully wholesome n'all, is not gonna be able to supply the amount of animal based food and other products that people will demand as part of their diets.
Boul I think we're speaking at cross-purposes here. I don't believe in a vegan revolution, I think that after the revolution people will still eat meat and although I have a personal dislike for that I don't think they should be stopped. I also think that people will still drive, but I have strong doubts about the existence of auto-factories after the revolution - partly because obv. that's a huge drain ecologically but also because the automobile, as a material product, is wrapped in layers of capitalist ideology, and the production of it is extremely alienating as well. I think we'll come up with new forms of transportation (I have no idea what they'll look like). In the same way I doubt that there will still be meatpacking plants, and I doubt that there will still be McDonald's or other fast food (why would people need fast food if they weren't rushing to work?).
Do you know anyone who would willingly spend their free time working in a slaughterhouse or fast-food restaurant? Maybe under parecon the irish farmers could con some folks into doing it for higher wages than other jobs, but under real libertarian communism i have a hard time imagining it.
Lastly perhaps the meat industry is less pollutive than in ireland, but what do you think is driving the destruction of the Amazon? it's prime land to grow soybeans to feed cows.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/05/398020.html?c=on#c194796
Long Hot Summer of ANTISPE! (pronounced ahn - tih - speh)
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Do you know anyone who would willingly spend their free time working in a slaughterhouse or fast-food restaurant? Maybe under parecon the irish farmers could con some folks into doing it for higher wages than other jobs, but under real libertarian communism i have a hard time imagining it.
If people still want to eat meat after the revolution (and they will) then there will be slaughterhouses. Personally I'd have no problem with it, or working in any other sort of factory to be honest, as long as I get to help decide how it is run, and how the resources are shared out.
Oh Fuck!