Now thats what i call subvertising...

No it wasn't actually.

EDIT: Unless Jack lied to me.

Yeah, I was talking about Jack's vandalism.

manchester.. only goes to prove its the true centre of the universe 8)

although clearly not the spelling capital of the world

Hmmm, I can't help but feel that that subvert above kinda validates the tory argument. I mean the problem with the tory poster is that it's a populist, anti-PC straw man - who says that immigration controls are inherently racist? (Except of course the people who altered the advert...)

The advert is trying to build on the idea of a politically correct elite running everything and fucking over working class people - the same sentiment the BNP tries to build on.

Of course immigration law is bad because of the way it fucks over the working class; keeping out refugees from war zones our government has helped create and letting in lots of cheap labour to bring down wages + conditions for "native" workers.

asylum and immigration issues are a sordid underbelly of this society which most people are unaware of except for the arguments being counced in the crudest terms. the level of debate around asylum and immigration is simplistic in the extreme and obviously the tory poster plays with that.

immigration controls are applied in a racist way, there is tons of evidence of that. i accept that doesn't necessarily mean that the idea of restricting migration is racist. However, immigration control is racist because in practice it is aimed at particular groups of people. a century ago there were no immigration laws. immigration law started in 1905 to keep out jewish immigrants and since the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962 immigration law has been targeted at keeping out black people. immigration control has been built on racist premises and still operates as such. i don't think it is possible to seperate the issue of racism from the issue of immigration control. neither do the tories evidently as they are going for the most simplistic buttons to press. (nice to know they have such a high opinion of working class peoples intelligence. my other favourite subvertise is "is it so hard to keep a hospital clean", yes if you contract out the cleaning to an underpaid, privatised workforce)

jack i don't really get why you are saying the subvert validates the tory argument. i agree it is a populist anti PC straw man and people subverting it have responded to it as such by turning the meaning of the advertisement back on itself. the tories set the terms of engagement. there is no room for more subtle arguments on a billboard.

i have found that when you speak to people about the reality of immigration control, why it was implemented and what it does, most people are shocked and then often broadly supportive. i wish there was some platform to talk with people about this, rather than having to be crudely responsive on billboards. but generally there isn't. so we have to do what we can with what we've got.

immigrants and people seeking asylum are not cheap labour which "fuck over the working class" by bringing down the wages and conditions of "native" workers. they are largely working class people themselves and as such, we should support them. it should not be either/or. immigrants etc. are people with loads of skills that this country because of its shit immigration laws refuses to use and leaves skilled people washing dishes in illegal employment in fear of deportation. as a country we bleed skills and we treat the people who could fill the gap like shit.

the way to fight against the exploitation of people used in cheap labour and to protect wages and conditions for 'native' workers is not immigration control.

Ideally, immigrant workers should be organised alongside existing workers -- this is what the CNT did with the peasant 'murcianos' who came to Barcelona from rural Spain and were used as casual labour. Likewise, the IWW in the North-West USA, when faced with bosses bringing in thousands of ex-slaves to break their organisation, turned the tables by organising among the 'negros'.

However, there are cases where this is not possible. Recently Haliburton subsidiary KBR attempted to bring in workers from outside (india/Pakistan, I think) in order to displace the unionised oil workers in the plants it ran. The workers staged various protests and managed to get most of the outside staff (about 1,000) removed. In that situation there was no possibility of organising the outside workers, partly due to the presence of US/UK/Danish troops and partly because the new workers were part of a well-disciplined corporate force who also had little bargaining power vis a vis KBR, who could send them home at will -- although I think some engineers were contacted favourably.

Likewise, when hte situation is not one of workers, but of welfare claimants -- housing or income support -- there is often a situation where the newcomers are taking up scarce resources. And that's because of the areas they're sent -- but a blanket 'refugees welcome here' doesn't do justice to the situation.

Not that I'm saying this is Lucy's attitude.

John -- solution to stop being mistaken for Jack = develop separate personalities

You mean there's two of you?!?!?!?!?!?

yepyep some of us in the 'pool did a couple of those boards

we painted over 'not' and 'servative'

great fun, except when a cop pulled over and asked us if we were doing graffitti and claimed we had been doing some late-night painting and decorating. hehe smooth 8)

planning on doing some more- i hope everyone else is too!!

sorry, reading your response, i clearly misunderstood what you wrote. i didn't intend to distort your words and certainly didn't intend to imply you are a racist.

i agree with the fact that the left in general uses liberal arguments or sloganising such as 'refugees are welcome here' and neither is useful as it doesn't engage with people's concerns and fears leaving room for the BNP to wade in with its big feet. more genuine debate which changes the current terms of engagement set largely by mainstream media would be welcome. we need to communicate honestly with people on this issue. i'm glad that Freedom is going to tackle it.

i take the point and there is some truth in that argument but it ignores i think the possiblity that people may well be quite aware these are simplistic arguments and may actually enjoy seeing that people have subvertised these posters with what many people seeing the poster may well be thinking. the location of that poster is in a relatively deprived area where a high percentage of the people are black. seeing the tory party being told to fuck off with their racist propaganda is actually quite cheery on a damp monday morning. i agree the tory party are portraying themselves rather pathetically in opposition to an imaginary loony left but on the other hand, i think its a little bleak to say that that is how the subvertise will be perceived by "ordinary" people so reinforcing the tory message. i think its just as likely that many people will agree with the subvertise.

and finally massive apologies for calling you jack. <adopts american accent> i feel your pain.

i recently did one with the tagline; it's classist only the poor are denied entry. But it was pasted over a couple days later.