Semiotics of the AF Red/Black star
Aug 28 2007
Hi
I was wondering if anybody could tell me the history/semiotics of the red and black five pointed star of venus that the AF uses for its logo.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
Aug 29 2007
#2
thats not the AF logo though mate 
Aug 29 2007
#3
there you go.
Aug 29 2007
#4
is that like extreme thumb war, in a fire?
Aug 29 2007
#5
It's a Spanish anarchist salute from the thirties, comes from the fact that it's difficult to salute in any other way with your hands cuffed.
I'm still not quite sure why it has to be on fire though 
Aug 29 2007
#6
Id have to say the red//black has come to mean yer a libertarian communist of sorts.
Aug 29 2007
#7
The general consensus has always been a synthesis of the black flag of anarchism and the red flag of socialism/communism which implies class struggle anarchism and/or libertarian communism/socialism. I came into the movement in the late-seventies with the firm belief that the red flag was the Workers flag, a slight shift on Jim Connell's "peoples flag", and hence the red and black flag became the flag of the 'Anarchist Worker', and subsequently the flag of class struggle anarchism/libertarian Communism. 
Aug 29 2007
#8
The general consensus has always been a synthesis of the black flag of anarchism and the red flag of socialism/communism which implies class struggle anarchism and/or libertarian communism/socialism. I came into the movement in the late-seventies with the firm belief that the red flag was the Workers flag, a slight shift on Jim Connell's "peoples flag", and hence the red and black flag became the flag of the 'Anarchist Worker', and subsequently the flag of class struggle anarchism/libertarian Communism.
Aug 30 2007
#9
i fucking hate it when people say it means anarcho-syndicalism or call me one just because i have one.
Aug 30 2007
#10
Oh yeah, such an awful insult innit 
Aug 30 2007
#11
I get similarly pissed off when I wear my Hull City shirt -- fuckers who think I'm a Hull City fan. 
Aug 30 2007
#12
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
Oh yeah, such an awful insult innit
yea, well, its nice and easy for you cuz you are a @-syn but im not, so then i have to spend the rest of the demo explaining why im just a libertarian communist and not a @-syn.
Aug 30 2007
#13
Aye, dontcha just "hate" that. While you might find it irritating hate is a bit strong innit? Particularly as you are basically appropriating an anarcho-syndicalist symbol
Just admit it on the next demo, where of course everyone will acost ye with "hey, is that an anarcho-syndicalist badge your wearing" and increase yer likelihood of getting an ulcer, and tell them "yeah, but other class struggle anarchists/libertarian communists like it so much we stole it" 
Aug 30 2007
#14
Actually , Malatesta and Co first used the red and black flag during the Benevento uprising, so it cerainly predates anarchosyndicalism, so wipe that smilie off your message!!
Aug 30 2007
#15
Get a sense of humour
Aug 30 2007
#16
madashell wrote:
It's a Spanish anarchist salute from the thirties, comes from the fact that it's difficult to salute in any other way with your hands cuffed.I'm still not quite sure why it has to be on fire though ;)
Fire? I thought they were mountains.
still, the wackest logo for an anarchist group has to be the wsm. they really should change it...
Aug 30 2007
#17
Damn, that WSM logo looks like some kind of Masonic thing... with the sun, and the A being the pyramid... would get a conspiracy phreak cream in his trousers coz even the anarchists are part of the New World Order!
Aug 30 2007
#18
I do like the victorian factories though.
Aug 30 2007
#19
The arrows are a stroke of genius. I'd be sorry to see it go.
Aug 30 2007
#20
My kids could recreate that symbol with a magnetic shapes set they had a few years ago. Y'know the sort with a board and rectangles, triangles, straight lines, curvy lines and circles?
I think they might be getting rid of it - under the influence of some of their young blood. I won't be sad to see it go, its pretty woeful.
Can't beat the wildcat or the ol' anarcho-syndicalist red and black.
Aug 30 2007
#21
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
Get a sense of humour
meh, i think its a fair point if its true.
Which knowing battle, it is.
Aug 30 2007
#22
wtf anyway guys, this thread was over in the 4th post.
Aug 30 2007
#23
Quote:
Fire? I thought they were mountains.
Surely its jelly or crumpled paper or something, mountains are usually depicted as being straight verticially.
Aug 30 2007
#24
It's clearly clouds. The sun of anarchy breaking through the clouds of oppression & shining light on the victorian factories. With some arrows.
Aug 30 2007
#25
the button wrote:
It's clearly clouds. The sun of anarchy breaking through the clouds of oppression & shining light on the victorian factories. With some arrows.
We were talking about the AF one. But actually the WSM one - are they clouds, or smoke from the factories?
Aug 30 2007
#26
Tacks wrote:
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
Get a sense of humourmeh, i think its a fair point if its true.
Which knowing battle, it is.
An' you can get a sense of humour and all you eejit - I know its fucking true Hence the winks and big green grins in my post in relation to others "stealing" it, some people, I dunno...
Aug 30 2007
#27
A good logo needs a bare chested man, and either a lion or a globe.
Aug 30 2007
#28
John. wrote:
the button wrote:
It's clearly clouds. The sun of anarchy breaking through the clouds of oppression & shining light on the victorian factories. With some arrows.We were talking about the AF one. But actually the WSM one - are they clouds, or smoke from the factories?
I assure you comrade that in the WSM logo they are neither clouds nor smoke but are indeed mountains.
Aug 30 2007
#29
Jack wrote:
A good logo needs a bare chested man, and either a lion or a globe.
I've a CNT 1979 Congress poster on my wall that has a naked man cracking open a globe thats nearly the same size as him and a naked woman coming out of it holding a lamp in one hand and a new globe held aloft in the other.
The new world out of the shell of the old in artistic form.
My 1983 CNT Congress Poster has the salute that the AF took off Spanish anarcho-syndicalism for their logo 
How many AF members have had to salute wearing handcuffs? (And they stole the name of Organise! for their mag when HIV/AIDS meant that a mag called Visus might no longer be in good taste).
Aug 30 2007
#30
The WSM logo was actually nicked from anarcho-syndicalists. It was the logo the WSA used on its paper Ideas and Action in the 1980s / early 90's and when we were looking for a logo it was no longer in use.
Workers Solidarity was in turn both the name of one of the major CNT publication (Catalonia newspaper I think) and the name of one of the unions that founded the CNT in the first place. Although as I understand it the main attraction was that no other left group had used it in Ireland.
Although if i had bothered to google it i would have come up with:-
"The red-and-black flag is the symbol of the anarcho-syndicalism and anarchist communism movement. Anarcho-syndicalism, which is part of the labor union movement, draws its principles from both anarchism and more heavily from socialism than many other anti-capitalist anarchist movements. As discussed in the black flag section, black is the traditional color of anarchism, and red is the traditional color of socialism.
The red-and-black flag combines the two colors in equal parts, with a simple diagonal split. Typically, the red section is placed on the top-left corner, with the black on the bottom-right corner of the flag. This symbolizes the co-existence of anarchist and socialist ideals within the anarcho-syndicalism movement, and to symbolize the more socialistic means of the movement leading to a more anarchistic end."
Umm... sorry about that