Trot split lulz

28 posts / 0 new
Last post
bulmer's picture
bulmer
Offline
Joined: 17-11-10
Apr 15 2012 11:07
Trot split lulz
Quote:
I along with a number of other members of Workers Power in Britain, Austria and the Czech Republic have resigned from the organisation. The global capitalist crisis has posed tremendous questions for the radical left about how to go forward. We have increasingly drawn the conclusion that the historical legacy of the post-war left, in particular the Leninist-Trotskyist left, needs to be subjected to far-reaching critique and re-evaluation in light of the contemporary challenges.

The organised left is dogged by sectarianism and opportunism. There there are quite literally hundreds of competing orthodoxies, with each sect promoting and defending its own, typically very narrow, conception of revolutionary theory and practice without subjecting their ideas to the critical re-evaluation which we believe is necessary if Marxism is to reach out to far wider layers.

We came to the conclusion that a method of organising exclusively focused on building specifically Leninist-Trotskyist groups prevents the socialist left from creating the kind of broad anticapitalist organisations, which can present a credible alternative to the mainstream parties.

Apparently there's 16 of them. That must be about 1/3 of WP?

http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/a-simple-proposal-for-a-new-anticapitalist-left/

proletarian.
Offline
Joined: 15-08-11
Apr 15 2012 12:13

Why limit ourselves to trots?

At this point, we realized that our permanence in BC didn’t make sense anymore. Moreover, any objection coming from us was interpreted as an attack on the clique, and any criticism as a manifestation of diabolical intellectual and human arrogance: in the eyes of the supreme priest and (by hereditary right) of his clergymen, we became a nightmare they had to get rid of, by resorting to the force of numbers and calumny, as in the best Stalinist tradition.

leftcoms split

Railyon's picture
Railyon
Offline
Joined: 4-11-11
Apr 15 2012 13:42

With 2 lefties in the room you have 3 splinter groups, that simple

wojtek
Offline
Joined: 8-01-11
Apr 15 2012 14:39

Regular mundane split? Not good enough, the international proletariat demand revolutionary lynchings!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Red_Army

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
Apr 15 2012 15:53
wojtek wrote:
Regular mundane split? Not good enough, the international proletariat demand revolutionary lynchings!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Red_Army

reminds me of the Dev Sol split 1993 which left in the end at least 15 people dead, I myself witnessed a serious fight between the two Dev Sol factions (DHKP/C and THKP/C-DSG) at the 1st May demo in Hamburg 1995, some poor TKP/ML members who wanted to negotiate between and with the two groups to prevent the fight got literally caught in the middle and received some nasty injuries

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
Apr 15 2012 16:45
Railyon wrote:
With 2 lefties in the room you have 3 splinter groups, that simple

and at least two of the splinter groups suffer from intense factional infights

Sik Kunt's picture
Sik Kunt
Offline
Joined: 19-04-12
Apr 22 2012 15:18

LOL

Splits are almost as fun as watching Trots act like Trotsky was anything other than Stalin without power.

Our centralised state dictatorship with no workers control was betrayed by a dictator, who used central planning and a state with no workers control HUR DUR

petey
Offline
Joined: 13-10-05
Apr 23 2012 16:27

fyi:

https://proletariandemocracy.wordpress.com/posters/

Railyon's picture
Railyon
Offline
Joined: 4-11-11
Apr 23 2012 19:54

posadists are so full of lulz.

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
Apr 26 2012 09:51

the WW on the WP split: http://cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1004812

proletarian.
Offline
Joined: 15-08-11
Apr 26 2012 17:28

Talking of nutters (slightly harsh perhaps) has anyone actually read any of the 'anti-dialectics' site? I'd like to know the general jist but to be honest it looks reminiscent of Socialist Steve but less interesting!

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
Apr 30 2012 09:53

http://www.permanentrevolution.net/entry/3400

Quote:
Most time was spent on two alternative “what we are” resolutions, a fairly short one that was passed (see below) and a longer platform put forward by Workers Power. At one level it was a difference over whether it was too soon to start taking positions on Palestine, the Arab revolutions, the need for a general strike to defeat government attacks etc. Many thought, right at the start of an initiative where we were still in the process introducing the idea of setting up local networks and developing a national discussion framework, defining a programme was premature.

At another level it showed that the remaining members of WP, who are helping to build the project, have a schema that sees the ACI in terms of “building a workers party” as an alternative to Labour, replete with programme, democratic centralism, directing centre etc. This is not how we, the comrades who recently left WP, or the majority of people involved see this initiative.

Most of the people involved, and the students at the meeting expressed it most clearly, don’t see this as some Leninist or Trotskyist project but an initiative to link up and work with quite divergent movements and activists – from libertarian, syndicalist, horizontalist and even anarchist traditions, alongside those from none of the above.

It means we are going to have to move outside our comfort zones, work with people from UK Uncut, Occupy, climate change activists, in ways that are new, and go beyond “selling the paper and building the party”. But it also means trying to build some sort of local and national anticapitalist co-ordination that overcomes the traditional divisions and sectarianism on the left; one that aims to link the new radical movements into the struggle to transform the trade unions into fighting allies of anticapitalism.

BanjoRed91's picture
BanjoRed91
Offline
Joined: 16-10-09
May 2 2012 22:57

I know it's on my profile, but I used to be in contact with (not really involved, it was early high school so I just had good conversations with the people in the group) a Trotskyist group called the International Bolshevik Tendency, a split from the Spartacist League (U.S.). Thing is, the people in it were nice enough personally, but ideologically they were as rigid as some evangelical conservative Christians I grew up with.

Oh Trot splitters....

http://bolshevik.org/

Anarchia's picture
Anarchia
Offline
Joined: 18-03-06
May 3 2012 06:29

IBT are ultra ultra rigid ideologically. I've worked with a few of them (including their global leader) here in New Zealand, which is their base, and they're mostly fine to work with (though ultra boring when spouting their line in meetings). They used to actually be relatively big in Wellington (compared to other groups anyway) but are tiny now.

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
May 3 2012 07:57

basically, their were the saner part of the Sparts who were able to leave in time ... they have a great sense of (sarcastic) humour, no surprise when you've survived the Sparts

ocelot's picture
ocelot
Offline
Joined: 15-11-09
May 3 2012 09:24

Yeah we have one (IBT) here in Ireland, down in Cork (a Kiwi I believe, so that ties in with what Asher says) with a couple of supporters up in Wicklow. Again, their ideology may be rigid orthodox Trotskyism ( wall ), but their political practice and organisational culture is a lot better (i.e. more democratic, pro-horizontalist, etc) than the two main (unorthodox) trot groups here (SP/CWI, SWP/IST).

petey
Offline
Joined: 13-10-05
May 3 2012 13:41

i like to read their journal '1917', as it comes out once a year and i don't feel pestered by it.

Inhousejoke
Offline
Joined: 28-03-08
May 3 2012 23:07
ocelot wrote:
Yeah we have one (IBT) here in Ireland, down in Cork (a Kiwi I believe, so that ties in with what Asher says) with a couple of supporters up in Wicklow. Again, their ideology may be rigid orthodox Trotskyism ( wall ), but their political practice and organisational culture is a lot better (i.e. more democratic, pro-horizontalist, etc) than the two main (unorthodox) trot groups here (SP/CWI, SWP/IST).

I think I've met their supporters in Wicklow, i.e. some old dude gave me a leaflet for a group called "Marxist Revolutionary Tendancy", HAS to be the same people.

And yeah, that IBT guy is nice enough, was chatting to him and an IBTer from Germany for like 2 hours at the bookfair 2 years ago...... cant for the life of me remember what we were talking about (the Dutch Gold may have something to do with that wink )

Zeronowhere
Offline
Joined: 5-03-09
May 6 2012 17:41
Railyon wrote:
With 2 lefties in the room you have 3 splinter groups, that simple

This is, in fact, the current state of the De Leonist movement.

Automaton
Offline
Joined: 19-10-10
May 6 2012 19:40

They have a new website: http://anticapitalists.org/

Automaton
Offline
Joined: 19-10-10
May 6 2012 19:56

I think it might have already been spoofed: http://anticapitalism.biz/

petey
Offline
Joined: 13-10-05
May 6 2012 23:01
Zeronowhere wrote:
Railyon wrote:
With 2 lefties in the room you have 3 splinter groups, that simple

This is, in fact, the current state of the De Leonist movement.

i didn't know there was a 'current state' of the deleonist movement.

Jason Cortez
Offline
Joined: 14-11-04
May 8 2012 11:17
Automaton wrote:
They have a new website: http://anticapitalists.org/

not strictly accurate, about 80 people attended the founding meeting most appox 3/4 apparently not attending as reps for parties/org or independents. So the ACI is a lot bigger than the split (who have basically desolved themselves into ACI as a faction)and includes the remaining Workers Power and the previous split Permanent Revolution. These three remain the most organised groups at present, but the network is a loose autonmous so it remains to be seen it can move beyond the struggle for control to something more meanigful.

Jason Cortez
Offline
Joined: 14-11-04
May 8 2012 11:25

http://libcom.org/blog/where-we-stand-formation-new-anarchist-communist-project-uk-01052012 and http://www.libertyandsolidarity.org/
Just as funny no?

Zeronowhere
Offline
Joined: 5-03-09
May 8 2012 19:49
petey wrote:
Zeronowhere wrote:
Railyon wrote:
With 2 lefties in the room you have 3 splinter groups, that simple

This is, in fact, the current state of the De Leonist movement.

i didn't know there was a 'current state' of the deleonist movement.

You clearly haven't seen my backyard.

David in Atlanta
Offline
Joined: 21-04-06
May 15 2012 01:59

If you ever want to see the boring old codgers of the Pathfinder Tendency, aka the US SWP, get really nervous, go to one of their forums and tell them the Sparts are outside.

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
May 15 2012 13:57

members of the US-SWP/their clones around the world and Mormons do share a similar style of fashion smile

David in Atlanta
Offline
Joined: 21-04-06
May 15 2012 19:44

Speaking of which, I found out recently the leadership of the US SWP sold the party archives to the Hoover Institute, widely known as a cold war state department/cia academic front.

Topic locked