veganist values in American Anarchism
May 8 2006 21:52
So I'm guessing RR is a vegan ('cause he doesn't seem the type to be a hypocrite), and I know Oliver Twister is, so, does this mean that even the American anarchos with decent politics suffer from this foul perversion?
I woulda thought you'd have rejected veganism even quicker than the decent British ones. 
May 8 2006 21:59
#2
pingtiao wrote:
There is nothing wrong with being vegan Jacqueline.
Obviously theres nothing wrong with most things in themselves but if you attach too much meanin to them...
May 8 2006 22:02
#3
pingtiao wrote:
There is nothing wrong with being vegan Jacqueline.
Not politically, no. Just, y'know in terms of not being mental, and for want of being desirous of others taking your opinion seriously.
Gav is a good example. Back when he was vegan, he thought the Earth was flat, decadence theory was sound and that homeopathy had scientific merit.
May 8 2006 22:03
#4
Everyone has different rules for their personal conduct- so for those who extend their category of what should be treated "well" to include animals, it is something loaded with meanng. There is a danger here, isn't there, of criticising diet-nazis with the same logic you get pissed off at them using on us- a universal 'morality' that condemns what to you/us is normal 'moral' behaviour?
May 8 2006 22:05
#5
pingtiao wrote:
Everyone has different rules for their personal conduct- so for those who extend their category of what should be treated "well" to include animals, it is something loaded with meanng. There is a danger here, isn't there, of criticising diet-nazis with the same logic you get pissed off at them using on us- a universal 'morality' that condemns what to you/us in normal 'moral' behaviour?
On the internet you'd usually just abreviate this to "fap fap fap".
May 8 2006 22:26
#6
Jack wrote:
Not politically, no. Just, y'know in terms of not being mental, and for want of being desirous of others taking your opinion seriously.
what do you mean by this?
Quote:
Gav is a good example. Back when he was vegan, he thought the Earth was flat, decadence theory was sound and that homeopathy had scientific merit.
When my mate Dave ate meat he believed in little green men and was historical determinist and used crystals to heal his headache.
May 8 2006 22:52
#7
JDMF wrote:
Jack wrote:
Not politically, no. Just, y'know in terms of not being mental, and for want of being desirous of others taking your opinion seriously.what do you mean by this?
Thats pretty obvious; he's saying if you want people to take your opinions seriously and not associate them with some weird lifestyle informed beliefs, you should not exhibit tendencies different from what is considered the norm.
I know what he means, but i totally disagree and if you're quietly being vegan i can't see how this will effect what others think of you. I have yet to see a piece of class struggle propaganda from any group contain a reference to veganism or anti-vivisection, so ppl are clearly keeping their beliefs on this out of the main argument.
May 8 2006 22:55
#8
Tacks wrote:
JDMF wrote:
Jack wrote:
Not politically, no. Just, y'know in terms of not being mental, and for want of being desirous of others taking your opinion seriously.what do you mean by this?
Thats pretty obvious; he's saying if you want people to take your opinions seriously and not associate them with some weird lifestyle informed beliefs, you should not exhibit tendencies different from what is considered the norm.
And I'm pretty sure Jack is joking on this. He's vegetarian even. If he's not he's an idiot. But i'm sure he is...
May 8 2006 22:57
#9
I got a leaflet entitled "Why anarchist Vegan?" the other day, did you have a hand in it JDMF? I think it mentioned the basement, as well as libom for some reason 
May 8 2006 23:01
#10
threads on veganism, what libcommers do when they get bored (or at least what jack does) its the equivalent of the whale in the thames story on the telly. must be a dull news day.
May 8 2006 23:01
#11
John. wrote:
And I'm pretty sure Jack is joking on this. He's vegetarian even. If he's not he's an idiot. But i'm sure he is...
I was parodying the perceptions some parts of the anarchist mileau have about libcomistas.
It doesn't really carry on the internet.
May 8 2006 23:02
#12
lucy82 wrote:
threads on veganism, what libcommers do when they get bored. its the equivalent of the whale in the thames story on the telly. must be a dull news day.
I like to think of it as being so ironic that it's gone beyond tedious self-parody, and into previously unfanthomed realms of wit.
8)
May 8 2006 23:03
#13
Jack wrote:
John. wrote:
And I'm pretty sure Jack is joking on this. He's vegetarian even. If he's not he's an idiot. But i'm sure he is...I was parodying the perceptions some parts of the anarchist mileau have about libcomistas.
It doesn't really carry on the internet.
Yeah cos it comes off like your actual opinion. Which reminds me, we haven't been called anarchist hairdressers in a while have we? Shame.
May 8 2006 23:16
#14
John. wrote:
Yeah cos it comes off like your actual opinion. Which reminds me, we haven't been called anarchist hairdressers in a while have we? Shame.
The self-hating vegetarian is part of my whole thing.
May 8 2006 23:19
#15
Would the parody have carried better if I'd went with the directors cut thread title of 'Vegophilia filth rife in American Anarchism'?
May 8 2006 23:20
#16
theres a point where self-hate stops being funny and simply becomes
a reason why people should force you to eat meat.
May 8 2006 23:21
#17
Jack wrote:
Would the parody have carried better if I'd went with the directors cut thread title of 'Vegophilia filth rife in American Anarchism'?
yes.
May 8 2006 23:22
#18
Jesus, I was so shitting bored.
So bored, it needed a linguistically unjustifiable profanity to adorn it.
May 8 2006 23:27
#19
Jack wrote:
John. wrote:
Yeah cos it comes off like your actual opinion. Which reminds me, we haven't been called anarchist hairdressers in a while have we? Shame.The self-hating vegetarian is part of my whole thing.
Have to say, I think you're the only person I've ever heard prefix the words "I'm a vegetarian" with "Unfortunately..." 
May 8 2006 23:28
#20
8)
May 9 2006 00:16
#21
Well Miss Jackie , the refusal that is embodied by 'veganarchy' is not necessarily a 'brave one', and once become habit is not really hard to maintain. I've been vegan for, well, say, intermittent years at a stretch, have not eaten meat in years, the wife likes cheese and so it's there and I have some occasionally. Not too doctrinaire.
Veganism in American subcultural/pseudo-rebellious 'tribes' is quite standard practice tho it can create issues in larger living collectives. It has even spawned a farcical heresy called "Freeganism" which is a loophole claiming that if the meat wasn't paid for, or it was dumpster-dived, then it's ok.... 
There's' 'rampant' vegeterianism in green/hippy, anarcho-punk and 'DiFrancoist' cicles. All of whom I have little more than contempt for- as groups. It's only 'lifestyleist'; to the extent that some people are merely commited to it as part of the 'signifiers' of their particular stylized rebellions. For some it is real and valid, for some its actually quite personal.
Me I just don't eat meat, I think that there are ethical/humane ways to milk cows, sheer sheep, egg chickens, etc. but unless you've killed the animal yrself, well it is a very drastic mediation, shall we say....and if you don't care about our fuzzy friends/deny their capacity for feeling/suffering, well, imagine yourself as an immigrant laborer in a saughterhouse. The ah, um, "Labor Conditions" are quite substandard, my friend. Think of the psychology of it, the hygiene, the sheer morbidity of it.
I'm definitely not a righteous type, or what my arch-vegan chef friend calls a 'concerned citizen', I'm a vegetarian, I cook, I experiment, I still somehow see vegetarianism as a half-measure. One way of looking at it is the massive waste of land energy ansd labor-power the harvesting of carcasses has become....one key to the 'leisure-society' that the market socialist types on this board refer to so dreamily, is in fact, urban indoor hydroponic, roof gardening, and such. The lack of arable land in urban centers makes it dependent upon the countryside, it is part of the city/country, proletarian/peasant, a reinforced and exploitative division. Massive, indoor urban gardens would help to supercede all that, and be useful in an emergency situation. A Revolutionary Situation.
Anyways don't be so smug about the veg's, there is reason in the refusal, there are many in fact. I made the a similar refusal in working for none but local business and I don't regret it. It is related, because it is also a defiance of 'mediated' experience.
May 9 2006 02:12
#22
(preface - I'm not a freegan. Don't agree with the concept, personally.)
Just to clarify, freegans traditionally don't eat meat. A freegan is generally someone who is vegan, but will eat dairy products if they have been dumpstered (freegan theory dictates that the animal has already suffered, and to let the product go to waste would be more of an insult to the animal than to eat it).
May 9 2006 02:15
#23
I've heard that, and the other. Still weak-ass reasoning to me. But my shoes are leather, so that's 'dead weight' as well. Like I said, I'm not 'pure'. Clarifications welcome tho, where I'm too disgusted to 'research'. 
Simply reclaiming waste does nought to prevent the waste from happening. For that, worker/consumer control is needed. Not lunging into a dumpster.
May 9 2006 04:27
#24
http://freegan.info/ seems to be the best site for info on freeganism.
The anarchist freegans I know don't see dumpstering as a way to reduce waste at all, and never do it exclusively from other organising (workplace, community etc). It's simply a way to reduce your footprint in the meantime.
May 9 2006 05:26
#25
Sorry, not buying it, still. To each his own. I support food not Bombs, etc, but this Freegan spiel squints toward a 'dependence' on waste output that should not even exist to begin with, has little to do with what I see as self-sufficiency or sustainablity. Whatever makes people feel better, I guess.
May 9 2006 12:21
#26
Hi
I like hot meat.
Love,
NY
May 9 2006 13:22
#27
I'm a vegetarian, I eat cheese and yogurt again. Was vegan for about a year. I eat vegan on a regular basis but if cheese pops around I don't mind eating it. and I eat probiotic yogurt cause I'm prone to tonsil infections right now. 3 in one month! wooooo
May 9 2006 13:25
#28
aahhh so the raping of animals is grand for you to enjoy cheese and to help your wee sore throat, but testing on animals for medical purposes is out of order? 
May 9 2006 13:33
#29
revol68 wrote:
aahhh so the raping of animals is grand for you to enjoy cheese and to help your wee sore throat, but testing on animals for medical purposes is out of order?
cheese is got from raping animals????!?!?!?!!!??!?!?!?!??!?????
May 9 2006 13:35
#30
On roof gardens. My aunt was telling me that they actually aren't all that healthy as in they're less healthy than your average GM food. Cos the veggies from the roof contain loads of undesirable minerals from car fumes and what-have-you. Does anyone know if this is true?
There is nothing wrong with being vegan Jacqueline.
I only stopped being vegan because I was in hospital for so long and they kept feeding me baked potatoes and baked beans for every meal. It was ace- I felt wicked. If i wasn't so lazy I'd go back to it- it makes you feel very good physically.