wacky anarchists
May 12 2006 21:36
I am putting this post in this category mainly because it fits under "but you were afraid to ask." Maybe it doesn't belong here, I dunno.
I have for my entire life been a strange person. First I was a smartass little girl with many hobbies and brightly-coloured clothes. Then I was a hippy vegetarian teenager with crazy leftwing political ideas which eventually turned to anarchism.
Then when I was (just barely) an adult I moved to Glasgow which I found to be much less accomidating of "free spirits" and learned the value of looking smart (like someone was saying about bowler hats in another thread). Anarchists don't do ourselves any favours by marking ourselves out from others, do we?
And also, aside from anarchism, it occured to me that it might be nice not to be on the fringes for ONCE in my life. I don't think I'm very good at it though,
Anyways I'm starting a course in herbal medicine and spending a lot of time in my garden and all my clothes are full of holes. I'm considering paganism and have spent some time lately conversing with trees. And I still hate wearing shoes.
I don't want to be so alientated from the rest of my community that nobody takes me seriously but I also have a fairly deeply ingrained "be who want, fuck those who don't like it" sense. I feel like all the things I do differently I do for good reasons, but all combined I feel so disconnected from the rest of the folks on my street, people I work with etc.
Has anyone else ever had this problem, if so what did they do?
(Maybe in your case it was studded leather and peircings. Whatever.)
May 12 2006 21:52
#2
Quote:
I'm considering paganism and have spent some time lately conversing with trees. And I still hate wearing shoes.
Might be a reason why joe bloggs thinks your a tad strange..
May 12 2006 21:55
#3
I'm not wacky. I would be, but I'm too lazy to put the effort in.
May 12 2006 22:06
#4
Gwen wrote:
(like someone was saying about bowler hats in another thread))
I stand by this. I bet Class War could make a tidy packet selling branded smoking jackets...I'd buy one.
May 12 2006 22:08
#5
I have a sombrero...but that's about as "wacky" as I get. I think.
May 12 2006 23:04
#6
Thora wrote:
I'm not wacky. I would be, but I'm too lazy to put the effort in.
Unless raw puts in the effort I suppose? 
Hmmm well I don't think you should change your appearance to fit anyone's definition of "normal", cos everyone's a fucking freak. I look pretty normal, so I know people aren't prejudiced against stuff I say because of my appearance, and I understand that it would be weird if that were the case, I definitely wouldn't like it. So I spose it's up to you really, going with want you want or bowing to social expectations. Neither way is a superior option I don't think. Tho it'd be weird denying what you wanted to be...
But please paganism is just really really stupid. Please don't be a pagan!!
WillsWilde you always slag off hipsters, but you really sound like the typical "hipster" who spends all their time slagging of people who are "scene" when they themselves are so not "scene" at all, ha ha.
May 12 2006 23:08
#7
I know that the way i dress and behave has led to gobshites assuming lots about me, but fuck it, of course people assume shit, i do it all the time.
It's just interesting watching the reaction when the poof in the burgundy scarf starts waxing lyrical about how fucking shite John O'Shea is.
May 13 2006 00:03
#8
John. wrote:
But please paganism is just really really stupid. Please don't be a pagan!!
What's wrong with paganism? Is it a general problem you have with all religion/spirituality or specific to paganism?
My problems are mainly the same as with all religion, plus it's a bit silly but I could probably use more silliness so I don't count it as a point against it.
Getting more and more offtopic. 
May 13 2006 00:05
#9
Gwen wrote:
John. wrote:
But please paganism is just really really stupid. Please don't be a pagan!!What's wrong with paganism? Is it a general problem you have with all religion/spirituality or specific to paganism?
Well no pretty much all of it.
May 13 2006 02:35
#10
Gwen wrote:
John. wrote:
But please paganism is just really really stupid. Please don't be a pagan!!What's wrong with paganism?
Paganism, often seen as the soft option, cos it is, gets its attraction from being really old, the true spirit of the people, before civilisation when we were like really wild and in touch with nature... Whilst i can understand the attraction of resurrecting traditions that were crushed by the romans and then the christians think about it: its all heritage and tradition shite. Just like nationalism or any other religion is. Whats more is its 90% bollocks dreamt up in the last 150 years by silly wankers.
I dunno, i think its fairly harmless if you must pick a religion, but if your an anarchist - whats the attraction?
May 13 2006 02:37
#11
TheWillsWilde wrote:
I'm a mod, basically, but not built like one, I wear a three piece suit (thriftstore and homemade stuff) & tie, the over all effect makes me look like an average worker from the 30's on his day off.
get in!
are you a mod through and through or is it just the clothes?
May 13 2006 03:41
#12
Tacks wrote:
I dunno, i think its fairly harmless if you must pick a religion, but if your an anarchist - whats the attraction?
Well it's kind of a direct action religion because if you want to do something you can, you don't need to go through a clergy of any sort, you just need to figure out how to do whatever it is. There aren't any set rules, my friend said that if you ask 8 pagans for a definition of paganism you'll get 16 different answers.
I don't have any interest at all in a church or similar instituation, I was never raised in one, I feel no affinity to them, so where else should my spirit find growth and rest? The best I have otherwise found is buddism but that never sparked me, really. Witches seem so much more active.
I have been really aware of the energy of life for a good long time now and need a framework of some sort to fit it into, to learn how to work with it because I feel like I could be much more powerful and healing with the proper learning. Paganism seems to have tools to do these things.
See I've got crazy hippy stuff coming out my ears I worry about being marginalised and cut off from everyone else. :/
Man maybe this thread should be moved to another category.
May 13 2006 08:09
#13
don't worry gwen i think it's important to be honest about who you are and also yes, fuck the consequences, like you say. i had a similar progression to anarchism and think about similar 'negotiations of identity' stuff (except the pagainsm bit!) a lot of the time, especially since i'm pretty much what a lot of people would call middle class, despite the lack of ownership of any means of production, but marxism aside...
i went through a phase when i was in liverpool of being very embarassed about being a student from the midlands and the countryside, and wanting to cut all my dreads off, talk like a scouser and get a shitty job. but then i realised that, like john said, everyone's a bit of a freak when you think about it and i was just wanting to conform to an imagined, idealised cultural stereotype of white-working-class-ness that in itself was enormously patronising, a sort of class-transvestism, and ultimately a pointless endeavour.
however, when i was younger i went in the other direction, trying desperately to be as different as possible, probably over-compensating for my lefty views in the context of a small conservative town. i've realised that this is also a very counterproductive thing to do.
so now i have gone through this grand performance of hegelian dialectics (!), i've come to where i actually feel relatively comfortable. sure, i am still a bit of a scruffy student, and i don't fit in with either the cockneys or the bengalis round my way, and i don't fit in with the crusties and lifestylers in the anarcho-scene on the other hand. in fact, i've found that sort of in-between identity can be quite useful.
hope that helps put you at ease a bit gwen 8)
May 13 2006 08:24
#14
John said:
Quote:
WillsWilde you always slag off hipsters, but you really sound like the typical "hipster" who spends all their time slagging of people who are "scene" when they themselves are so not "scene" at all, ha ha.
No, not at all. We don't even go out to drink or see bands really. Occasionally I go to the Hemlock which is an arch-hipster dive in SF, but to me just a local (3 blocks away), and the kids are truly obnoxious, which is worse than the conformity of it...the problem with hipsterism is that there is no open-heartedness.
In my hometown I was a lush/musician, a raconteur, there were hipster types about (read:mediocre artists) but now I'm just sort of an unknown quantity. I know what you mean tho, but dressers are highly frowned upon here.
Tacks said:
Quote:
get in!are you a mod through and through or is it just the clothes?
I am a Small Faces, Kinks, Creation, Pretty Things, Yardbirds, early to mid-period Stones, Who fan, I love Chess blues, soul music, r&b, early ska (Desmond Dekker is king), I love the Jam, the Mod influences in punk, etc. When I lived in Chicago I used to go to the Holiday Mod night and dance.I don't have a scooter, if that's what you mean. I love mod sesign, clean lines, the iconography, etc. But I don't look like a mod, not skinny/anemic, the suit doesn't carry me like that. Just as well. I don't have the mod consumer fetish.
But I also listen to loads of other stuff of course, very little rock lately, in fact, and appreciate all sorts of styles, I just know what suits me.
May 13 2006 09:03
#15
Hmm yeah never really get that whole 'spirit' thing, I suspect if people were being honest they'd just admit that they like nature and it's relaxing/calming to be around, rather than pretending that they have some sort of deeper soul which is nourished by such things. I love to be in the countryside and listen to the birds and the rustling of trees etc, but there's nothing there that would suggest to me a deeper automatic connection than that other than my own ego.
Specifically on paganism though, tbh I think dancing round fires and worshipping green men detracts rather than adds to an ability to appreciate your surroundings. If you want to spend time on such things, then I'd say go for it, but in any given hour doing so, wouldn't it be more to the point to just sit and watch rather than droning on at a (man-made) picture of a human face sitting just in front of it?
May 13 2006 10:03
#16
Gwen wrote:
Well it's kind of a direct action religion because if you want to do something you can, you don't need to go through a clergy of any sort, you just need to figure out how to do whatever it is. There aren't any set rules, my friend said that if you ask 8 pagans for a definition of paganism you'll get 16 different answers.
Hmmm but I don't believe in any mystical irrational clap-trap, and if I "want to do something [I] can", go through any clergy, have any set of rules. My do you have to adopt some mumbo jumbo, that's just wrong to do any of that? Are you just trying to look for an excuse for not being religious, by picking a religion (albeit a less "oppressive" one?)
(On a separate note I think this is the appropriate forum for this discussion, since a lot of people, esp. new to radical politics, have similar crises, largely to do with as ftony said the tension between wanting to look different + non-conformist espoused by part of the movement, and then the patronising prolier than thou bollocks by another)
May 13 2006 10:09
#17
John. wrote:
Gwen wrote:
Well it's kind of a direct action religion because if you want to do something you can, you don't need to go through a clergy of any sort, you just need to figure out how to do whatever it is. There aren't any set rules, my friend said that if you ask 8 pagans for a definition of paganism you'll get 16 different answers.Hmmm but I don't believe in any mystical irrational clap-trap, and if I "want to do something [I] can", go through any clergy, have any set of rules. My do you have to adopt some mumbo jumbo, that's just wrong to do any of that? Are you just trying to look for an excuse for not being religious, by picking a religion (albeit a less "oppressive" one?)
(On a separate note I think this is the appropriate forum for this discussion, since a lot of people, esp. new to radical politics, have similar crises, largely to do with as ftony said the tension between wanting to look different + non-conformist espoused by part of the movement, and then the patronising prolier than thou bollocks by another)
I don't have a problem with paganism or spirituality tbh. I have a problem with organised religion though. But who's to say the trees aren't imbued with spirits, or that ghosts don't exist, or that we share a connection with an animal born at the exact same moment we were so that we share their dreams?
May 13 2006 10:15
#18
I'll say it, but you don't have to believe me
May 13 2006 11:26
#19
Thora wrote:
John. wrote:
Gwen wrote:
Well it's kind of a direct action religion because if you want to do something you can, you don't need to go through a clergy of any sort, you just need to figure out how to do whatever it is. There aren't any set rules, my friend said that if you ask 8 pagans for a definition of paganism you'll get 16 different answers.Hmmm but I don't believe in any mystical irrational clap-trap, and if I "want to do something [I] can", go through any clergy, have any set of rules. My do you have to adopt some mumbo jumbo, that's just wrong to do any of that? Are you just trying to look for an excuse for not being religious, by picking a religion (albeit a less "oppressive" one?)
(On a separate note I think this is the appropriate forum for this discussion, since a lot of people, esp. new to radical politics, have similar crises, largely to do with as ftony said the tension between wanting to look different + non-conformist espoused by part of the movement, and then the patronising prolier than thou bollocks by another)
I don't have a problem with paganism or spirituality tbh. I have a problem with organised religion though. But who's to say the trees aren't imbued with spirits, or that ghosts don't exist, or that we share a connection with an animal born at the exact same moment we were so that we share their dreams?
oh dear!
scundered for you.
May 13 2006 11:28
#20
Thora wrote:
But who's to say the trees aren't imbued with spirits, or that ghosts don't exist, or that we share a connection with an animal born at the exact same moment we were so that we share their dreams?
Admin - discussion about the class nature of trees split to here
May 13 2006 12:25
#21
Of course you should be whoever you want to be. It's an important right.
However, the idea that clothes, makeup, etc are a way to express your individuality is largely consumerist nonsense. I'm the same person whether I'm wearing my big black trenchcost and have a mohawk (which I do prefer) or my Fred Perry jacket with a crew cut.
The Fred Perry / crew cut combination is what's fashionable among the working class of Glasgow though. So I can be the same person but come across as far more normal by a simple and otherwise irrelevant change of clothing.
People still assume I'm a student though, damn Surrey half of my accent (
May 13 2006 14:41
#22
AnarchoAl wrote:
Of course you should be whoever you want to be. It's an important right.However, the idea that clothes, makeup, etc are a way to express your individuality is largely consumerist nonsense. I'm the same person whether I'm wearing my big black trenchcost and have a mohawk (which I do prefer) or my Fred Perry jacket with a crew cut.
I agree with that. My problem with mainstream clothes is that they're uncomfortable, they fall apart (then if you can't be frugal and fix them), you have to keep them clean which is no fun. Also sometimes I just feel like such a tool if I'm dressed like that, I can't get over t...
Many fashionable clothes for wimmin my age displays one's body in way that personally I'm not comfortable with in every situation, which furthermore limit mobility oftentime. So until I learn to bike in a miniskirt...
May 13 2006 14:43
#23
Gwen wrote:
So until I learn to bike in a miniskirt...
That's what hotpants are for.
May 13 2006 14:49
#24
you got the legs for hotpants john?
May 13 2006 14:50
#25
Quote:
My problem with mainstream clothes is that they're uncomfortable, they fall apart (then if you can't be frugal and fix them), you have to keep them clean which is no fun.
Sorry gwen i dont quite get this....
What are mainstream clothes? Dont you have to keep all clothes clean? Aside from an asthetic standpoint they will just start rotting after a while....
May 13 2006 14:59
#26
Saii wrote:
you got the legs for hotpants john?
well i think if i were a girl they'd be pretty good. if i shaved them anyway. Problem would be the giant feet (comparatively). The only thing more gross than a man in hotpants is a man in a thong.
Back to slightly more serious matters, Gwen why don't you have wash non-"mainstream" clothes as frequently as "mainstream" ones? 
May 13 2006 15:03
#27
i don't understand what mainstream clothes are? I mean i vaguely know what "mainstream fashion" is but i'm not aware they differ in materials or anything beyond style.
P.s. mini skirts haven't been very mainstream for years, especially not the tight ones, it's all about the bohemian/hippy/russian peasant skirt.
Also John your legs like most mens legs are far too skinny to rock hot pants or skirts. The calf muscle is far too pronounced in men i'm afraid.
Legs are one of the first things that catchs out trannies.
May 13 2006 15:07
#28
Quote:
The only thing more gross than a man in hotpants is a man in a thong.
Hmm how bout a thong and a comically bad hairpiece? How bout John Prescott in a thong?
Bugger. Now I have a mental image of John Prescott in a thong and a wig. And revol's right, except that the bohemian skirt was 2005, and may not carry over to this summer.
NB// On topic, non mainstream clothes are presumably a bit tougher, and thus the dirt doesn't rot em as easily or indeed show if you've got a good pattern? Thus necessitating fewer washes.
May 13 2006 15:08
#29
revol68 wrote:
i don't understand what mainstream clothes are? I mean i vaguely know what "mainstream fashion" is but i'm not aware they differ in materials or anything beyond style.P.s. mini skirts haven't been very mainstream for years, especially not the tight ones, it's all about the bohemian/hippy/russian peasant skirt.
Pffft get with it dude boho is so over. It's all about the city shorts right now.
Quote:
Also John your legs like most mens legs are far too skinny to rock hot pants or skirts. The calf muscle is far too pronounced in men i'm afraid.Legs are one of the first things that catchs out trannies.
The feet would do me. My calf muscles aren't prominent at all.
May 13 2006 15:08
#30
Saii wrote:
NB// On topic, non mainstream clothes are presumably a bit tougher, and thus the dirt doesn't rot em as easily or indeed show if you've got a good pattern? Thus necessitating fewer washes.
i still dont understand where mainstream comes into it? If you have good quality clothes it doesnt matter whther they are mainstream or not!
John. wrote:
It's all about the city shorts right now.
These are possibly the nastiest thing ever 
I've never consciously altered my image to assimilate, or prevent alienation, but my own tastes range towards a sort of manageable eccentricity. I'm a mod, basically, but not built like one, I wear a three piece suit (thriftstore and homemade stuff) & tie, the over all effect makes me look like an average worker from the 30's on his day off. Heather wears homemade dresses, accents, etc. This stuff gets us accepted in straight society, because they are fooled into thinking we have money, sneers from hipsters, who are trying desperately not to look like the spoiled assholes that they are, and weird-suspicious or curious reactions amongst the younger Anarchist set.
All fine with me.