WTF John Zerzan?

Submitted by Global Dissident on 19 June, 2008 - 01:03.

He just isolates himself more and more. And yet his fan base still increases.

http://www.anti-politics.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=178

19 June, 2008 - 02:39

Is that libcom's very own Mikus defending Willful Disobedience?

Big LOLZ!

19 June, 2008 - 14:41

what's wrong with Zerzan?

19 June, 2008 - 14:47

Joke account.

Edit: also, that series of posts is from 2001.

19 June, 2008 - 14:49
Yarrow wrote:
what's wrong with Zerzan?

b&

19 June, 2008 - 14:58

Oh lawd!

19 June, 2008 - 15:00

Just in case you're not imaginary though, read this for why Zerzan is a load of bollocks.

19 June, 2008 - 15:04

i can't read any of that stuff without thinking of that fiction story on here. "The Adventures of Username" whatsit.

19 June, 2008 - 16:04

that's a lot to read right now. Anyone care to highlight?

19 June, 2008 - 16:12

Very briefly, he posits that Zerzan and the other primmies are in fact misanthropic scum whose very ability to romanticise the primitive lies in the long distance they are away from it. He goes into quite a lot of detail in debunking the ludicrous assertions of these people that primitives led a better life than we do and that technology is itself an evil to be removed.

I shuld point out though that you asked a question, perhaps you should put more effort into learning the answer.

Fail cry

19 June, 2008 - 16:25

the only reason i asked for a summary, was to begin a discussion.

personally, i find 'misanthropic scum' a little vague, and moreover a value judgement. As in, useless.

there are, i would think, two branches of romanticism; those who no nothing of what they speak, and those who know nothing else. Is that damaging to the concept of romance? Is every lover a fool for not realising the validity of all other possible mates?

perhaps from a 'third person' perspective. but we are all the first person, so that point seems a little void to me.

Not yet have i seen a sensible critique of primitivism, except from those who come from a sympathetic position. all others seem a little rabid and hyperbolic.

19 June, 2008 - 16:36

Of course it’s a little vague, it’s a summary! And misanthropic scum/romanticism was my words, not his. And I’m sorry, but anyone who adheres to a creed which requires the death of 90% of the human race to come about is misanthropic scum.

Romanticism in this case is people who wax lyrical about a “utopia” which has no evidence to back it up and zero chance of happening, using the very technology they despise to espouse it.

Quote:
Not yet have i seen a sensible critique of primitivism

You mean that you can’t be bothered to read anything long, and haven’t found anything well-researched debunking primitivism? How extraordinary…

Actually, I reckon you are a joke account.

19 June, 2008 - 16:43

Gibberish. Do you dig primitivism?

(Are digging tools allowed?)

edit- cross-post with Saii

19 June, 2008 - 16:47

good lord. any chance of a level-headed conversation?

if primitivism requires a 90% die-off, then Reclaim the streets requires 90% of workers unable to reach their jobs or buy their food.
Anarchy requires 90% of people to be subject to the whims of others.
Anticapitalism requires 90% unemployment. Vegetarianism requires 90% of cows to be set free.

i think you may be reading too much into it; as i said, the only sensible critiques seem to start from a position of acquaintance.

19 June, 2008 - 16:49

Wot!?

How does Primitivism not require a 90% die-off?

alternatively

Quote:
Anarchy requires 90% of people to be subject to the whims of others.

you are a joke account

19 June, 2008 - 16:55

primitivism is closest to a philosophy in my eyes. believing in god does not require a heaven.

and anarchy really does that! no more than life in general, in all fairness. but it's a valid point, imo.

19 June, 2008 - 17:01

Who are the 10% who don't?

Of course people's actions are limited by others, why is this a bad thing?.

So at least you recognise that primitivism has no practical viability whatsoever. Is it "a philosophy" because it can make unsubstantiated assertions and reject the evidence to the contrary of its fantasy view of human development then?

19 June, 2008 - 17:05
Django wrote:
Who are the 10% who don't?

Of course people's actions are limited by others, why is this a bad thing?.

So at least you recognise that primitivism has no practical viability whatsoever. Is it "a philosophy" because it can make unsubstantiated assertions and reject the evidence to the contrary of its fantasy view of human development then?

from your hypothetical olympian ledge you can do nothing but tremble with vertigo.

19 June, 2008 - 17:11

the other 10% are tyrants. every classroom has a nice kid and a nasty kid.

i'm not saying such limitations are a bad thing, i'm saying judging anything on those terms is a bad thing. anything can be made to look anyway using such tools.

primitivism has as much practical viability as consumerism or Catholicism. it is perfectly possible (and beneficial), provided you want it.

Any assertions that are not unsubstantiated, that reject no evidence or point of view, are either fantastic themselves, or inherently unsustainable. All reality tunnels are equally flexible and compromising, in one way or another.

I think...

19 June, 2008 - 17:16

Haha, I'll leave you to your primitivist alternate reality then.

19 June, 2008 - 17:20

if you have nothing to add, you can just admit it. certainly, I don't mind. i wouldn't expect an abusive 'anti-sectarian' to have much in the way of strong critique anyhow...

19 June, 2008 - 17:22

Yarrow is that annoying guy, so eager to impress who doesnt realise that the libcommunity is the kitchen of the party, where we make off-key jokes and he is looking for the front sitting room (theory/organise/history forums) where idiots go to be deep. I would help him out with a link but I worry he might end up in the ICC. Perhaps you are more abc material?

19 June, 2008 - 17:27

not eager to impress at all!

off-key jokes are a sign of an off-key mind. I keep mine in good working order.
humour is fine with me, you knock zerzan i ask why?

and yes, i'm sure only idiots discuss history or theory. i think i have your number, chucky.

19 June, 2008 - 17:28

oh yeah that cock? The one who comes in and is all "you guys are sooo immature!!! - what about poetry? what about love? WHAT ABOUT REVOLUTION!1!!1???"
"na mate, we're just having a laugh here, all the old people are in the front-room scratching their beards and talking about Thatcher, we're just gonna smash-up an old microwave"

19 June, 2008 - 17:30

you will not get a serious discussion in this subforum, stop being a spastic

19 June, 2008 - 17:34

indeed, connor, you are a true spastic. they now have a new word, so that 'spastic' can be saved for you and weiner.
i'm having a laugh myself. at you guys, because you are unable to converse on any kind of serious level. i guess you all live with your mums? i get the impression you've not yet flown the nest, your rites of passage lay far ahead... bless smile

19 June, 2008 - 17:34
Yarrow wrote:
not eager to impress at all!

off-key jokes are a sign of an off-key mind. I keep mine in good working order.
humour is fine with me, you knock zerzan i ask why?

This website is about class struggle, not anti-civ nonsense. My organisation has a pamphlet on Zerzan - http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=1451

I can summarise though; against civilisation? Catch on you twat.

19 June, 2008 - 17:34

That's it Yarrow, you tell them. This r serious forum.

19 June, 2008 - 17:37

in the theme of this great evening, fuck off you twat.

i don't want to hear what you say, because you're a fucking retard.

You are wrong. everyone agrees with me.

grow up kids... LOL

19 June, 2008 - 17:38

Yeh. None of us are even in serious revolutionary organisations and using this place to kill time while we are at work. The guy is an attention whore, time to ignore methinks.

19 June, 2008 - 17:39

motion proposed, I second.