Terrorist attacks in Norway

209 posts / 0 new
Last post
no1
Offline
Joined: 3-12-07
Jul 25 2011 09:29

Thanks for that Felix. When I checked on Saturday, the whole site was inaccessible.

ocelot's picture
ocelot
Offline
Joined: 15-11-09
Jul 25 2011 12:56

bbc liveblog

Quote:
1203: The Norwegian anti-Islamic citizen journalist website Document.no, to which Breivik himself was a frequent contributor, has said large parts of his "compendium" are copied directly from US "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. Six of the references to the British National Party are from a Melanie Phillips article in Britain's Daily Mail about Labour, immigration and the BNP, which he appears to have cut and pasted into the document.

Never mind Kaczynski, cribbing Melanie Phillips, how low can you go?

ocelot's picture
ocelot
Offline
Joined: 15-11-09
Jul 25 2011 13:57

Looks like I'm well behind the curve on the Melanie Phillips connection. From the Breivik thread on Blood & Treasure. (n.b. whole thread is worth a read)

Quote:
I'm sure you will find some of the ideas familiar.

Familiar indeed. 'Cultural Marxism', the Frankfurt School, feminism and political correctness as the root of the problem, the EU apparat as its enforcer, Muslim immigration and terrorism as its consequence or indeed as its weapon ... now where have we heard these ideas before?

An ideology for justifying violence against racial minorities, the Left and the labour movement has been developing in plain sight, rather than in the underworld of NSDAP re-enactors. And it overlaps mainstream right-wing thinking.

Posted by: Ken MacLeod | July 24, 2011 at 08:18 AM
[...]
I woke up in the middle of the night with the phrase "the military wing of melanie phillips" in my mouth. I cannot possibly endorse its adoption anywhere, or comment on its appropriateness.

Posted by: belle le triste | July 24, 2011 at 10:40 AM

Very appropriate imo. Not to mention the contributions of those denouncers of multiculturalism and muslim failure to "assimilate" such as Sarko, Merkel and Cameron. But no, no, let's not talk about that, clearly just a lone madman, like Boris Johnson says:

Quote:
Michael Ryan had no ideology in Hungerford; Thomas Hamilton had no ideology in Dunblane. To try to advance any other explanation for their actions – to try to advance complicated "social" factors, or to examine the impact of multiculturalism in Scandinavia – is simply to play their self-important game. Anders Breivik may have constructed a portentous 1,500 page manifesto, but like so many others of his type he was essentially a narcissist and egomaniac who could not cope with being snubbed. We should spend less time thinking about him, and much more on the victims and their families.

Just a "narcissist and an egomaniac"? Takes one to know one, ey Boris?

Or even, the Telegraph, going for the classic Anders Behring Breivik was a 'mummy's boy'
. Ah yes, if all else fails, let's get oedipal...

Anything rather than talk about the right-wing, islamophobic agenda that Breivik was far from alone in promoting.

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
Jul 25 2011 14:10
Quote:
Or even, the Telegraph, going for the classic Anders Behring Breivik was a 'mummy's boy'
. Ah yes, if all else fails, let's get oedipal...

http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/anders-breivik-a-suitable-case-for-wilhelm-reich/

Auto's picture
Auto
Offline
Joined: 12-04-09
Jul 25 2011 14:20

Apparently Breivik has claimed there are two more cells 'in [his] organisation'. This is according to the statement released by the judge in today's hearing.

no1
Offline
Joined: 3-12-07
Jul 25 2011 14:28
ocelot wrote:
Quote:
"the military wing of melanie phillips"

Very appropriate imo. Not to mention the contributions of those denouncers of multiculturalism and muslim failure to "assimilate" such as Sarko, Merkel and Cameron. But no, no, let's not talk about that, clearly just a lone madman.

I agree. But that's also what puzzles me, this guy's views are given so much airtime, why does he feel the need to go and commit mass murder himself? Aren't the civilian deaths in Iraq and Aghanistan not enough for his bloodlust?
I spent some time going through that deranged manifesto, but I couldn't really find a rationale for the terrorist attacks.

ocelot's picture
ocelot
Offline
Joined: 15-11-09
Jul 25 2011 14:36
Auto wrote:
Apparently Breivik has claimed there are two more cells 'in [his] organisation'. This is according to the statement released by the judge in today's hearing.

I don't think anyone is taking this too seriously. If you actually were part of an organisation hoping to achieve further strikes in the near future, you wouldn't exactly start blabbing about it now, would you?

It seems more likely he's just come up with this out of an attention-seeking desire to compensate for the disappointment of not being able to hold forth in a public hearing in front of the world's media dressed in his little fetish uniform. Also his imaginary friends (sorry, comrade Knights) probably help him feel less alone at this stage.

Choccy's picture
Choccy
Offline
Joined: 9-12-04
Jul 25 2011 14:37

Pics of him today with a 'MARXIST HUNTER' patch on his weird wetsuit thing posing with a rifle.

Arbeiten's picture
Arbeiten
Offline
Joined: 28-01-11
Jul 25 2011 14:40

I NEVER NOTICED THE MARXIST HUNTER BADGE!
laugh out loud

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
Offline
Joined: 14-03-06
Jul 25 2011 14:41
no1 wrote:
I agree. But that's also what puzzles me, this guy's views are given so much airtime, why does he feel the need to go and commit mass murder himself? Aren't the civilian deaths in Iraq and Aghanistan not enough for his bloodlust?

The curious thing about this kind of right-wing thinking is its paranoid, anti-establishment self-image. So you get daily incitement against muslims in mainstream papers, world leaders condemning multiculturalism (from the right), and indeed a decade of wars quite consciously styled by their perpetrators as a clash of civilisations, and yet the claim is that the mainstream is PC Marxism banning Christmas and opening the Borders to all comers. So, what is the embattered true patriot to do in the face of these imaginary Islamic hordes over-running Western civilisation if not take to the streets (EDL) or take up arms (Breivik)? To be honest the surprising thing is how little this actually happens, suggesting of the millions of people who read Mel Phillips and her ilk only a handful really take it seriously. Because if many readers really believed the existential threats they peddle there'd be a lot more of this kind of thing.

no1
Offline
Joined: 3-12-07
Jul 25 2011 15:11
Joseph Kay wrote:
no1 wrote:
I agree. But that's also what puzzles me, this guy's views are given so much airtime, why does he feel the need to go and commit mass murder himself? Aren't the civilian deaths in Iraq and Aghanistan not enough for his bloodlust?

The curious thing about this kind of right-wing thinking is its paranoid, anti-establishment self-image. So you get daily incitement against muslims in mainstream papers, world leaders condemning multiculturalism (from the right), and indeed a decade of wars quite consciously styled by their perpetrators as a clash of civilisations, and yet the claim is that the mainstream is PC Marxism banning Christmas and opening the Borders to all comers.

Yes, that's the thing I'm trying to work out too. But maybe it's not that unusual - I imagine pre-WW2 would have been very similar, with rampant anti-Semitism among the European ruling class, yet still there was this powerful paranoid feeling of betrayal eg. with the Dolchstoßlegende.

Quote:
So, what is the embattered true patriot to do in the face of these imaginary Islamic hordes over-running Western civilisation if not take to the streets (EDL) or take up arms (Breivik)?

The weird thing is that he didn't go and execute a group of Muslims like Baruch Goldstein did, he shot children whose only 'crime' was to be at a social democratic youth camp.

Arbeiten has already pointed out how close this guy's thinking is to Nazism. Breivik is not a Nazi (though it seems that his main reason for rejecting the Nazis is that they lost WW2 thereby causing the current domination of 'cultural Marxist'), but his thinking really is very similar to Nazism. One idea that Nazis and similar thinkers have been obsessed with is purification through violence - maybe that's what the mass murder of social-democratic children is meant to be .

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
Offline
Joined: 14-03-06
Jul 25 2011 15:41

Zizek's argument is that the right recognises fundamental social antagonism, but rather than identifying the enemy as the ruling class, sees it as the 'liberal elite' who deny social antagonism all together ('cultural Marxism' seems to be a variant of this). So in that sense right-wing populism is closer to a class analysis than liberalism. The paranoia element is explained via that; life is shit, someone must be responsible, who is stealing our enjoyment? Name your scapegoat. And yet the government aren't doing anything against the 'threat', so it's up to us etc...

slothjabber
Offline
Joined: 1-08-06
Jul 25 2011 15:47

But isn't 'liberal elite' usually a codeword for 'Zionist conspiracy'? Even 'cultural Marxism' is identified with mainly Jewish writers...

Arbeiten's picture
Arbeiten
Offline
Joined: 28-01-11
Jul 25 2011 15:54

when Breivik is speaking of Cultural Marxism he means the Frankfurt School right? I'm sure he would have a field day with culture studies under the tutelage of Stuart Hall et al.

It is interesting you say that Slothjabber, though I don't think it is what Zizek is getting at (he is really good on anti-semitism), I have noticed how much 9/11 conspiracy theorists and its related movements have in common with the stuff Frost posted from the far right. I am getting the impression that this has a lot to do with the effect the internet has had. You know the proverb 'giving x so much rope they hung themselves', it's sort of like that with the plethora of 'information' and conspiracy narrative there is on the net.

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
Jul 25 2011 15:55

The rationale for attacking the Labour Youth summercamp is all in the manifesto. Cultural Marxists in category A and B (there's a C one as well) must be killed. They're the ones responsible for the (apparently) huge numbers of Muslims in Europe now. The Muslims are to be dealt with after the cultural conservatives have taken power. The first target is therefore the existing governments, capitalist globalists (he is a sort of anti-globalization proponent) cultural marxists in media, education (specifically sociology), judiciary, public sector etc. etc. I think he gives the figure at about half a million or so hard-core Marxists (which apparently includes Labour Youth) that must be killed no matter what and others have the option to "convert" or die.

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
Jul 25 2011 15:59

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/24/norway-massacre-anders-breivik-s-deadly-attack-fueled-by-hatred-of-women.html?om_rid=DNs6uI&om_mid=_BOLWxyB8cfeuXp

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
Offline
Joined: 14-03-06
Jul 25 2011 16:04
slothjabber wrote:
But isn't 'liberal elite' usually a codeword for 'Zionist conspiracy'? Even 'cultural Marxism' is identified with mainly Jewish writers...

Well Zizek was talking about the US 'culture wars' where the right are mostly Christian Zionists, so I don't think it's an anti-Semitic codeword in that context. But it's relatively simple to switch in Muslims for Jews while the structure of the ideological constellation remains basically unchanged.

ocelot's picture
ocelot
Offline
Joined: 15-11-09
Jul 25 2011 16:04

Self-pity is a normal trope for the right, particularly the extreme right. Justification through victimhood is the norm, in that context all violence is defensible as self-defence. That's not to say that the left doesn't use the self-defence justification as well, but there is a basic asymmetry there (contrary to what liberal critics critics say about left and right "extremists" being essentially the same). That is the absence of a systemic critique amongst the right, means the only explanation for the wickedness of the world is "bad people done it".

Especially problematic for the essentialists and racists is how to explain how the world's most superior race - the european/white race - is progressively being taken over by inferior races?(sustitute "cultures" for races for added 21st century new right fash points) Simple, it must be a conspiracy of Bad People amongst us, the "enemy within".

The de-racialisation of this "conspiracy of evil-doers" discourse in favour of a "cultural" version, allows the replacement of the scapegoats of yesteryear (Jews) with those of today ("cultural" Marxists) and allows on the one hand, reactionary zionist islamophobes like Phillips to join the party, and on the other, neo-nazis smart enough to twig that the holocaust got bad PR, to recycle themselves as defenders of Western liberalism (I kid you not) against the muslamic hordes.

no1
Offline
Joined: 3-12-07
Jul 25 2011 16:31
Khawaga wrote:
The rationale for attacking the Labour Youth summercamp is all in the manifesto. Cultural Marxists in category A and B (there's a C one as well) must be killed. They're the ones responsible for the (apparently) huge numbers of Muslims in Europe now. The Muslims are to be dealt with after the cultural conservatives have taken power. The first target is therefore the existing governments, capitalist globalists (he is a sort of anti-globalization proponent) cultural marxists in media, education (specifically sociology), judiciary, public sector etc. etc. I think he gives the figure at about half a million or so hard-core Marxists (which apparently includes Labour Youth) that must be killed no matter what and others have the option to "convert" or die.

Thanks for that. This makes me think the guy should not be regarded as a right-wing terrorist but a psychotic, maybe he's got something like delusional disorder, and is just using Melanie Phillips et al to rationalise his delusions. Terrorists have some rational strategic expectation of the consequences of their violence, like they expect that it will inspire the masses to rise up, or that there will be harsh generalised state repression, or that violence will simply terrorise sections of the population into submission etc. How could the murder of 68 children help him achieve the aim of killing off half a million 'cultural Marxists'? Even if his acts were to inspire others, there can be no expectation of that.

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
Jul 25 2011 16:42
no1 wrote:
Thanks for that. This makes me think the guy should not be regarded as a right-wing terrorist but a psychotic, maybe something like delusional disorder, who's just using Melanie Phillips et al to rationalise his delusions. Terrorists have some rational strategic expectation of the consequences of their violence, like they expect that it will inspire the masses to be inspired and rise up, or that there will be harsh state repression etc. How could the murder of 68 children help him achieve the aim of killing off half a million 'cultural Marxists'? Even if his acts were to inspire others, there can be no expectation of that.

He should be regarded as a terrorist and as part of the terrorist network the Knights Templar (though that might very well be a figment of his imagination). Doesn't preclude him from being psychotic as well though. But then again; like any other person involved in a martyrdom operation he has been prepared. Are suicide bombers psychotic? I don't know, but let's not jump to conclusions and make Breivik into an exception rather than Christian simply the equivalent of jihadist or suicide bomber.

It seems, however, that the cultural Marxists must be killed trope is not his own. From spending too much time reading the manifesto it is clear that that is not his own creation. Melanie Philips is but one he copies wholesale; he is much more influenced by this right-wing Norwegian blogger called Fjordman and other propnents of the Eurabia thesis. Difference is that he acted on this; by 2020 or something it will apparently be too late to do anything since the Muslim demographic bomb will have exploded. He does think that there are several other cells of Knights Templar; he even thinks that the EDL might have spawned off from such a cell. But he also believes that there is a concerted effort by the cultural Marxists and govts. to hush up any actions carried out by his organization.

ocelot wrote:
The de-racialisation of this "conspiracy of evil-doers" discourse in favour of a "cultural" version, allows the replacement of the scapegoats of yesteryear (Jews) with those of today ("cultural" Marxists) and allows on the one hand, reactionary zionist islamophobes like Phillips to join the party, and on the other, neo-nazis smart enough to twig that the holocaust got bad PR, to recycle themselves as defenders of Western liberalism (I kid you not) against the muslamic hordes.

this is a good point. in the manifesto Breivik goes on at length to disassociate him from Nazism and any politics based on race (one of his trump cards: I've had several dark skinned friends!) in favour of one based on culture. Still he argues that the nazis sorta had the right idea, but should have settled on deporting the Jews, but since the allies refused them to do just that, they had to kill them (though he doesn't seem to condone the Holocaust, which he does believe happened). He also believes that most neo-nazis are not really nazis; they would come to his side if they only knew better. He sees anti-semitism as a diversion, but would still work with Nazis (enemy of my enemy is my friend sorta argument).

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
Jul 25 2011 17:16

According to his lawyer, Breivik said to the police that "the goal of the attack was to give a powerful signal to the (Norwegian) people. The accused wanted to give the Labour Party as big a loss as possible so that it would quell future recruitment. The operation was not about killing as many people as possible, but to give a powerful signal that cannot be misunderstood that so long the Labour Party continues their ideological line and continues to deconstruct [he obviously do not understand Derrida and critcal theory] Norwegian culture and import Muslims on a massive scale, they have to take responsibility for this treason, and nobody should let their land be colonized by muslims."

no1
Offline
Joined: 3-12-07
Jul 25 2011 17:50
ocelot wrote:
Self-pity is a normal trope for the right, particularly the extreme right. Justification through victimhood is the norm, in that context all violence is defensible as self-defence.

Melanie Phillips is feeling persecuted by the cultural Marxists:
http://twitter.com/#!/MelanieLatest/status/95488220686585856

P.S. I notice she hasn't explicitly condemned the attack on her twitter feed - we should demand she does! After all she blogged about the islamification of Britain just a day before the attack ("Is Londonistan turning into Lemmingland?").

Auto's picture
Auto
Offline
Joined: 12-04-09
Jul 25 2011 19:07

Glen Beck has commented on the Utøya shooting. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with this guy?

The Guardian Liveblog wrote:
7.52pm: Glenn Beck, the rightwing US broadcaster and icon of the Tea Party movement, has compared those who died on the island of Utøya to the Hitler Youth.

Beck claimed on his radio show that the Norwegian Labour Party youth camp on the island was "disturbing" because it sounded like "a little like the Hitler Youth".

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
Jul 25 2011 19:13

Well, he's "just" using the lingo of Breivik who referred to them as Stoltenberg* Jugend. Despicable.

*PM of Norway.

Arbeiten's picture
Arbeiten
Offline
Joined: 28-01-11
Jul 25 2011 19:21

I have Al jazeera on Facebook and every article that has been posted about this Norwegian atrocity has been victim of a right-wing tea party racist shit storm.

Django's picture
Django
Offline
Joined: 18-01-08
Jul 25 2011 20:11
Auto wrote:
Glen Beck has commented on the Utøya shooting. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with this guy?
The Guardian Liveblog wrote:
7.52pm: Glenn Beck, the rightwing US broadcaster and icon of the Tea Party movement, has compared those who died on the island of Utøya to the Hitler Youth.

Beck claimed on his radio show that the Norwegian Labour Party youth camp on the island was "disturbing" because it sounded like "a little like the Hitler Youth".

Yeah, unlike those Tea Party and Young Republican summer camps.

Boris Badenov
Offline
Joined: 25-08-08
Jul 25 2011 22:03
no1 wrote:
One idea that Nazis and similar thinkers have been obsessed with is purification through violence - maybe that's what the mass murder of social-democratic children is meant to be .

There is nothing essentially Nazi about "purification through violence," i.e. the use of terror.

Arbeiten's picture
Arbeiten
Offline
Joined: 28-01-11
Jul 25 2011 22:51
Boris Badenov wrote:
no1 wrote:
One idea that Nazis and similar thinkers have been obsessed with is purification through violence - maybe that's what the mass murder of social-democratic children is meant to be .

There is nothing essentially Nazi about "purification through violence," i.e. the use of terror.

I concur, look at Franz Fanon's Wretched of The Earth

Aflwydd
Offline
Joined: 22-05-11
Jul 25 2011 23:04

Glenn Beck and his Nazi tourettes. I'm just waiting for him to drop any pretence and show us his Dr. Strangelove impersonation.

rooieravotr
Offline
Joined: 28-10-09
Jul 26 2011 00:51

No1:

Quote:
this guy's views are given so much airtime, why does he feel the need to go and commit mass murder himself? (...) I spent some time going through that deranged manifesto, but I couldn't really find a rationale for the terrorist attacks.

None of us would be reading and discussing this manifesto if there had'nt been this mass murder. And, among the ones reading and discussing it, may be the Breiviks of tomorrow. That also is part of it. He would not have had such publicity for his horror ideology without the horror attacks. Therein lies his rationale.